Honda 3.5 Oil Pan Drop.

[Trav]

Most definitely a bearing on the idler could be knocking.Another thing to check is the PS pump,these have been known to knock also.Some of these V6 engines are on their 2nd or 3rd pump.

I used magnafine filters on the return line and they worked okay but unfortunately a more than a few have leaked at the seams.
There is a better alternative..
Get a PS filter for a 99 Ford Expedition 4x4 5.4 from AutoZone (i am sure it fits lots of others also).
It is a Duralast 2210,its made of metal with bypass and magnet,25 micron.Fits 3/8 line.Same size and features as the Magnafine without the leaks and cost only $12.99.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Most definitely a bearing on the idler could be knocking.Another thing to check is the PS pump,these have been known to knock also.Some of these V6 engines are on their 2nd or 3rd pump.

I used magnafine filters on the return line and they worked okay but unfortunately a more than a few have leaked at the seams.
There is a better alternative..
Get a PS filter for a 99 Ford Expedition 4x4 5.4 from AutoZone (i am sure it fits lots of others also).
It is a Duralast 2210,its made of metal with bypass and magnet,25 micron.Fits 3/8 line.Same size and features as the Magnafine without the leaks and cost only $12.99.


Thanks. I am going to have the dealer check out the idler pulley... Just can not believe this engine, which has been babied it whole life, has a knock at idle. I hope it is the idler...

 

[moto94536]

I don't know. I am thinking he use alot of oil stabilizer or additive, engine oil treatment.

Honda says on the manual that we don't use those stuff.

 

[Boss302fan]

Originally Posted By: moto94536
I don't know. I am thinking he use alot of oil stabilizer or additive, engine oil treatment.

Honda says on the manual that we don't use those stuff.


Do you mean me? Only additive I have ever used is a little extra moly in the oil. When the valves were adjusted 20K ago it was perfectly clean inside. It actually looked new.

The dealer told me today that the timing belt area is fine and the knock at idle is coming from the cylinder head area. He said it could be a build up of carbon from all the reformulated fuel.

They have seen this before but not very often. He said I should just drive it and it should not cause any problems. Its been knocking for 2 years... Its only a slight knock and has not gotten any worse.

Any way to clean out the cylinder head without removing the head? Trav? LOL...

 

[Trav]

Some Cadillac N* had a carbon knock issue.
We pulled the plugs when the engine was warm and poured 2oz of GM top engine cleaner down each plug hole and left it overnight.The carbon knock will be gone.
Turn the engine over before putting the plugs back in to prevent hydro lock.Reinstall the plugs and start the engine,let it run a few min to clear it out then change the oil and filter.
This procedure works very well,the old GM top engine cleaner is getting harder to find,the newer version does not seem to work as well.Chrysler also makes a good one.

The old GM worked best,it contained an mild acid that got to work on the carbon quickly.
Kroil works well but takes a little longer,maybe over the weekend.
Kreen evaporates to quickly in the warm chamber to work properly.

Stuff that didn't work very well down the plug holes were.
Seafoam
MMO
Transmission fluid
Kreen
Fuel injection cleaners

The old Seafoam though a vacuum has little effect on hard carbon,just a lot of useless smoke.Water works better but there is always the risk of hydro lock if done incorrectly.

 

[ltslimjim]

I really like Amsoil's Power Foam for top end cleaning. I wonder if spraying it down the spark plug holes would allow you to get it into the engine even on the cars with MAF sensors(which the can doesn't recommend)?

Spray inside until the foam gets to the plug hole???



Also, I could use a tip guys. I don't have a torque wrench and this limits a lot of the kind of car work I feel comfortable doing(related to needing to torque bolts to spec etc).

When it comes to spark plugs, is there a way to make sure they are grounded(not overtightened) when removing/reinstalling with just a ratchet and spark plug socket???

PS: I agree with Trav for trying to attack the potential carbon issue on your cylinder head. The foam top end cleaners work well. Any of them. The Amsoil Power Foam even says on cars with high mileage to run TWO cans on the first treatment before shutting the vehicle to let it soak before the restart/expelling of what was dissolved or broken loose.

 

[Boss302fan]

Interesting. Would just running something like seafoam, BG 44K or Lucas Deep cleaner for about 3-4 continuous tanks of gas work or be a waste of money?

 

[Trav]

I can only speak from my own experience but yes it seems like its pretty much a waste of money IMO.The carbon is hard and needs to be soaked in a chemical to soften and loosen it.
These in tank products may help prevent/keep it clean though once the carbon is gone or stop it from building up in the first place.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

Also, I could use a tip guys. I don't have a torque wrench and this limits a lot of the kind of car work I feel comfortable doing(related to needing to torque bolts to spec etc).

When it comes to spark plugs, is there a way to make sure they are grounded(not overtightened) when removing/reinstalling with just a ratchet and spark plug socket???


Most spark plug box tell you how much to tighten. Generally, once it reaches the bottom, no more than 1/4 - 1/2 turn. It only needs tight enough so that it won't loosen on its own. Use your hand near the axis rather than at the tip of the wrench to control the torque. You would be surprised how little 15 lb-ft of torque (a typical spec for spark plug) is when you are using a 3/8 9" ratchet!

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I don't know if its a true monitor or just time/mile based.
It never came on AFAIK.He reset it after every OC.


The Maintenance Minder system in the 05+ odyssey is a true oil life monitor. It alerts you for an oil service when it drops to 15% and a "wrench" will appear.

Something still doesn't sound right about this story. If the service was severe, the Maintenance Minder will have adjusted the intervals accordingly. If the owner decides to ignore the Maintenance Minder system and decide on their interval, then stuff like this can occur. So what really happened? No one knows, but I suspect this person thought they knew better and ran synthetic oil longer than recommended by the computer--and truth is, 5k or 7500 may be too long sometimes.

 

[Trav]

Two points come to my mind.First technology is not infallible,it cant take some things into account that it cannot control or sense.
Second even though the holes on the PCV were open the part of the valve cover this valve goes into was filled with hardened sludge.

It more than possible that this engine wasn't breathing properly for quite a while.
These so called OLM may provide some info but i think i trust my eyes more than the gizmo.

What i don't understand quite honestly is this seemingly endless need to blame to owner.
There have been lots of comments like..
"There must be more to this story"
"This cant happen with synthetic oil"
"I don't believe this can happen with 7500 OCI"
"So what really happened? No one knows, but I suspect this person thought they knew better and ran synthetic oil longer than recommended by the computer"

I can assure you my wife's OLM on her old Toyota never came on and i changed the oil with quality oil every 7500 but the 3.0 began to sludge anyway.A lot of VW engines were trashed long before any service was indicated.
I guess it easier to just blame the owner/operator than their favourite brand of car or oil or god forbid some electronic wizard or even a design flaw.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Two points come to my mind.First technology is not infallible,it cant take some things into account that it cannot control or sense.


+1 While the system might be good, it isn't perfect, I look at it as a guide. Nothing replaces looking and checking for yourself. Especially when something that isn't monitored by the system can fail causing problems. Examples are the PCV system, an injector leaking down causing oil to break down ahead of time, or a bad head gasket to name a few things. These systems don't actually check the physical condition of the oil, or for sludge build up.

 

[bigmike]

It MUST be the owner that led the 3.5 to sludge up.

This can be proven by the following:

This is Honda.
They are the great pooh-bah.
In the Matrix, they took both pills.
I'm supposed to genuflect to them on my kneeling pad at any chance.
Why would I second guess the great one?

And, obviously, my oil couldn't allow sludge.
I've proven it with my butt dyno that in the continental United States it can last 42,082 miles with a P1 filter.

 

[demarpaint]

Remember it is always the owners fault. Oil, filters, and engineering are always fool proof. LOL

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Trav


I can assure you my wife's OLM on her old Toyota never came on and i changed the oil with quality oil every 7500 but the 3.0 began to sludge anyway.


Toyota's NEVER had an OLM. It was a simple odo that went off every x miles. Some of the older Toyota's did not even have that. It was only towards the middle 2000's that every Toyota had the simple ODO.

But this incident PROVES what I've said here for years. Just because you are running x oil does NOT give you a pass and COULD cause issues.

That is why I'm so stubborn

about all the koolaid drinkers just posting "x oil is good for x miles or time" WITHOUT thinking...

If there is a problem NO OIL will "protect" forever. Sometimes the best thing is to CHANGE THE OIL..

Take care, Bill

 

[Trav]

That's probably right and i take you word for it.I never checked what the system is or isn't as i don't pay any attention to it.I don't even know if the GM OLM on our old 03 Denali was a "real" monitor or just a mileage/time based reminder.

Quote:
But this incident PROVES what I've said here for years. Just because you are running x oil does NOT give you a pass and COULD cause issues.


100% agree with that.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

But this incident PROVES what I've said here for years. Just because you are running x oil does NOT give you a pass and COULD cause issues.

That is why I'm so stubborn

about all the koolaid drinkers just posting "x oil is good for x miles or time" WITHOUT thinking...

If there is a problem NO OIL will "protect" forever. Sometimes the best thing is to CHANGE THE OIL..

Take care, Bill


I agree 100%. No OLM is going to replace common sense, and a good maintenance regiment.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I don't even know if the GM OLM on our old 03 Denali was a "real" monitor or just a mileage/time based reminder.

It IS a OLM. It DOES take into account the RPM, Temps, time and such into coming up when to trigger the light.

Personally I trust such a system. Both in the past and with a few current vehicles that have the OLM.

Take care, Bill

 

[bigmike]

I agree that there is a great deal of sophisticated information on the development of the OLM. This has been discussed in good detail before.

I think Bill hit the nail on the head a few posts back. I also think that some common sense needs to be in effect when going by the OLM. Most of the manufacturers that have these systems tend to have a "bail out" statement of changing the oil at least yearly regardless of the OLM percentage.

(Sometimes) More often is cheap insurance.

 

[ltslimjim]

The bottom line is to constantly monitor your car over time so you cover your own self from here on, which you've chosen a regimen to PM the entire situation from happening again, and obviously you you went through the process of cleaning this up and don't want it to happen again.

Every application is different and can change within itself. It's a machine, not an organism that is guaranteed to live off of the best oil, etc.

Keep up the good work, Trav.