Honda 3.5 Oil Pan Drop.

[Trav]

Well i pulled the pan last night.As i said in the previous thread this thing was bad,minor sludge but lots of deposits and an enormous amount of varnish.
We put 16oz of Kreen in this engine for approx 1K before deciding to pull the pan and have a look.

As you can see the stuff was beginning to clean up,there is a lot of carbonaceous material in the bottom but it did not plug the screen.The sludge that was there did in fact get liquefied,no chunks of any significant size were noted.The oil looked like liquid thick black soup.

The pan.

The windage tray,this has very little contact with the oil from the pan side.

The pick up.

The crank area.

The oil fill hole.

I may pop the covers but it does seem to becoming much cleaner under there (you could not even see the any clean metal on the springs before).Pulling them involves removal of the plenum so i may just clean the bottom end and give it a run with kreen for 4K.

No more 7500K OCI for this bad boy,after looking at this mess 5K max.Oil is cheaper than cleaning this nightmare.The bottom of the cylinders and where oil actually gets sprayed around are really showing clean metal with no deposits.
ALL in all Kreen seems to be doing a fantastic job after a very short time on this mess.
Of course it would have been better to do shorter OCI and not have to use any cleaner at all but it is what it is.

 

[buster]

Thanks for sharing. I don't know why this engine has this much sludge/varnish build up. I would use Mobil 1 in this engine going forward.

 

[Sayjac]

Dang, that's the worst looking Honda engine by far, that I've seen posted here. Certainly seems to have gone beyond varnish to sludge.

Hard to believe that's the result of 7500 synthetic OCI's. Based on this if I owned a 3.5L, I'd be doing no more than 5k OCI's, even with synthetic. fwiw, looked down the fill hole of my 3.0L yesterday, last OCI 7200 with QS synthetic, looked good/clean.

Thanks for the pics.

 

[webfors]

This engine saw 7.5k OCI's with synthetic and turned out like this? No way, there's more to the story.

 

[Pablo]

Good to know about Kreen working. I've used their spray products with success in the past.

Wowser. I would just guess this was not a Group IV/V oil and I would venture to say that even with my salesman hat off, something like Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, etc would be OK at 7500 miles. I mean this engine only has what? 50k miles? And solenoids WERE gumming up.

 

[Trav]

Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 is in this engines future with 5K OCI.
If you saw the previous thread i give some possible explanations for the condition.
I wish i had a definitive answer as to why this happened it would certainly help prevent future issues.
This is one case that owner neglect is 100% not the problem.
The OCI was done always on time with quality product.

 

[Trav]

Verifiable FACT i can personally vouch for! 7500 OCI with a brand name and filter every OCI.

Originally Posted By: pablo
I would just guess this was not a Group IV/V oil and I would venture to say that even with my salesman hat off, something like Amsoil, Royal Purple, Redline, etc would be OK at 7500 miles. I mean this engine only has what? 50k miles? And solenoids WERE gumming up.


IIRC 82K on this engine.I agree a group IV/V will probably keep it in good shape.The guy is terrified now and he is bent on doing 5K OCI i guess i cant blame him.

 

[Pablo]

I can't really blame the guy for being that way.

Maybe you mentioned it before and I missed it, but who is picking up the tab on this?

 

[webfors]

Just read the other thread. Amazing. There must be a bunch of these engines in the same condition out there.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Just read the other thread. Amazing. There must be a bunch of these engines in the same condition out there.


I have seen some starting to scunge up fairly rapidly. Only the top ends though - this is the first lower half I've seen from the newer 3.5 VTEC.

 

[Corvette Owner]

I also agree, this was NOT 7500 mile OCIs with synthetic ! Don't care what owner said, NO WAY !

 

[btanchors]

Trav,

Many thanks for going to the trouble of posting these photos and information. Although part of me agrees with webfors, the bottom line is you can't simply select a synthetic oil, fill it up and think you're "good to go" without close monitoring. On second thought, ANY oil regardless of type should be closely monitored to make sure something like this isn't happening.

 

[Trav]

I dont have any answers honestly only questions.
Thing is it seems to be this year and maybe 06 and only the iVTEC engine not the regular VTEC ones after talking to some Honda techs i know.This was only offered in the EX with leather gut only and the Touring models.
A lot of it i am sure has to do with the type of service this particular vehicle sees,grueling extremely severe service.

Originally Posted By: pablo
Maybe you mentioned it before and I missed it, but who is picking up the tab on this?


I know this family well and he is paying out of his own pocket.
I am doing it in my spare time without knocking myself out so its basically parts and a few laughs.
He has always been a good guy to me and helped me with stuff in the past so what goes around comes around.

 

[Sayjac]

Just wondering, does this model have a true MM/OLM on it. If it does, I'm assuming the owner followed it?

Based on the other thread, sounds like severe service for sure.

 

[Trav]

I know a lot of Toyota owners who would go to war with you if you told them i cant happen.It can and did on thousands of engines.
This is fact like it or not it is what it is.
The guys other cars are spotless! This is the only one with any issues and he services them all.This one especially gets more attention as it is his wife's soccer mom van.

Every other fluid has been changed and serviced well before they were called for in the service manual.There is no reason to believe that someone that is so conscious of maintenance would skip on an oil change,this guy changed the stuts before they were worn at 60K just to keep it in shape.

 

[Trav]

I don't know if its a true monitor or just time/mile based.
It never came on AFAIK.He reset it after every OC.

 

[sky7]

Trav- thanks for taking the time to share this with us. I have that same motor and I appreciate your info.

 

[demarpaint]

Well it looks like Kreen is the real deal! I believe the owner was doing 7500 mile OCI's and I also believe that no matter what oil filter combo the owner used the results IN THIS APPLICATION, would have been the same. Going forward I would cut the 7500 mile OCI in half, following Nissan's [I think] 3750 mile OCI.

What a lot of people fail to realize is this: EG I have 3 vehicles and a driveway wide enough for one car. I can't park on the street overnight, that means shuffling cars around in the morning or at night. Start/run time and move time totaling about 3-5 minutes, then shut off. Drive to FIL's house 3 miles away, transport him to doctor or stores. Shut down, repeat sometimes several times hitting all the necessary stops for him. Some engines never see operating temps. 80-100,000 miles later combine that with a poor engine design, and no cleaners ever added, you have the mess Trav posted. In those instances shorter OCI's would certainly help.

If I had to pay someone to clean that mess up I’d shorten OCI’s and be sure to run a pint of MMO for every OCI or at the very least the lat 1000-1500 miles of it. JMO

 

[qdeezie]

Just a thought.........how big (or small I should say) is the oil filter? Imports are known to have small filters and it's only so much filtering they can do over a certain mileage. Also, what type of filter was used? If a synthetic motor oil was used, what's the possibility of the filter being filled to capacity each time prior to that 7500 mile interval? Any oil and especially synthetics should have enough detergents to keep the engine clean longer than 3750 miles. In a lot of instances, I don't think it's the oil that's bad because it has detergents, I think it's the filter being over capacity and going into bypass mode, which could cause a situation like this. If it's anything that needs to be changed at 3750, it should be the filter because it's probably at capacity if it's a tiny filter. Just my 2 cents.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: qdeezie
Just a thought.........how big (or small I should say) is the oil filter? Imports are known to have small filters and it's only so much filtering they can do over a certain mileage. Also, what type of filter was used? If a synthetic motor oil was used, what's the possibility of the filter being filled to capacity each time prior to that 7500 mile interval? Any oil and especially synthetics should have enough detergents to keep the engine clean longer than 3750 miles. In a lot of instances, I don't think it's the oil that's bad because it has detergents, I think it's the filter being over capacity and going into bypass mode, which could cause a situation like this. If it's anything that needs to be changed at 3750, it should be the filter because it's probably at capacity if it's a tiny filter. Just my 2 cents.


That's actually a good point, and certainly something to consider! My approach is certainly more cautious, but I bet still cheaper than the repair ticket to clean that mess up.