Home Solar

[KrisZ]

OK, here is the acid test with the new numbers.

Total cost $18,000
Cost per kWhr $0.29
Yearly projected power output: 6900 kWhr (assumes cloud coverage and all those good things are included when calculating average output.)
Value of power production: 6900 x 0.29 = $2001
Year payout* $18,000/2000 = 9 years.

* There are more things in play such as yearly degradation in the panels

So, 9.5 years sounds reasonable.

Now, if there were no government assistance, the payout would have been $26,000/2,000 = 13 years.

That assumes that the power company will buy the power back at $0.29 for the next ten years. Unless the contract specifically locks in this rate, it is almost a 100% guarantee that the rate will get lower and lower as more rooftop solar installations come on line.

This is that little dirty detail that is not discussed with the buyers.

 

[Number_35]

Yes, thanks to the hydro electric power from the Nelson River development. ( my grandfather worked on it). BC is at C$0.14 on tier #2, and C$0.10 on tier #1.) We blow through the tier #1 pretty quickly.

Was your grandfather involved in the construction of the first Nelson River generating stations in the 1970s?

They're all still functioning well, and several other stations have been added since, along with a 2nd converter station and 3rd HVDC line to send the power south.

The new line takes a much longer route south for purposes of route diversity (so that a catastrophic event is less likely to take out all three DC transmission lines).

There's capacity for one more large hydraulic G.S., but that would be way in the future.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Yes, my grandfather was a carpenter and worked on stalling the forms to get ready to receive concrete. Very repetitious but you had to keep your men organized and on the move.

 

[walterjay]

I asked a friend with a 3 year old system how they were doing with it. They were not very impressed with the way things are structured. Electric rates going up but the power company buying back excess at a small locked in rate.

 

[Snagglefoot]

That assumes that the power company will buy the power back at $0.29 for the next ten years. Unless the contract specifically locks in this rate, it is almost a 100% guarantee that the rate will get lower and lower as more rooftop solar installations come on line.

This is that little dirty detail that is not discussed with the buyers.

And that’s a good point. I just tallied my electrical usage for 2022. It was 17,000 kwhrs. I paid $0.10 per kWh for a total of $1700 for the year. Most of my heat is provided by a air to air heat pump touched up with a propane boiler below 27 f. Over the course of the year I average 17,000/365 = 46.5 kWh per day. The trick is to size your panels so you don’t bother selling back to the utility. That train has left the station.

46.5/5 hours is 9,300 watts. I would size it for no more that 8,000 watts. Any larger, and I would be giving power away to the utility. Finally, the roof surface would dictate what I finally came up with.

 

[KrisZ]

And that’s a good point. I just tallied my electrical usage for 2022. It was 17,000 kwhrs. I paid $0.10 per kWh for a total of $1700 for the year. Most of my heat is provided by a air to air heat pump touched up with a propane boiler below 27 f. Over the course of the year I average 17,000/365 = 46.5 kWh per day. The trick is to size your panels so you don’t bother selling back to the utility. That train has left the station.

46.5/5 hours is 9,300 watts. I would size it for no more that 8,000 watts. Any larger, and I would be giving power away to the utility. Finally, the roof surface would dictate what I finally came up with.

Well that’s not how it works. The panels are either connected directly to the grid or to your house, not both. You are not using the power produced by the panels and only send back the excess. That is not how it works, you send 100% of solar power back to the grid.

Edit: unless you build some sort of hidden transfer panel that would not get inspected. Which I doubt you would do.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Bottom line is, how much is your monthly bill vs what you were paying (and what you would be paying with current prices).

 

[Snagglefoot]

Well that’s not how it works. The panels are either connected directly to the grid or to your house, not both. You are not using the power produced by the panels and only send back the excess. That is not how it works, you send 100% of solar power back to the grid.

Edit: unless you build some sort of hidden transfer panel that would not get inspected. Which I doubt you would do.

Sorry. You are incorrect. It is net metering. Your house is consuming power. Power is provided by the solar panels and the utility. When the sun shines, the solar panels reduce the amount pulled from the utility. If the house is not using all the solar power, it is fed back into the utility.

 

[KrisZ]

Sorry. You are incorrect. It is net metering. Your house is consuming power. Power is provided by the solar panels and the utility. When the sun shines, the solar panels reduce the amount pulled from the utility. If the house is not using all the solar power, it is fed back into the utility.

Perhaps, it’s not my experience though. Will you have one or two meters? That will ultimately answer my question.
Hint, if it’s two meters, you do not consume the solar power.

 

[Number_35]

Perhaps, it’s not my experience though. Will you have one or two meters? That will ultimately answer my question.
Hint, if it’s two meters, you do not consume the solar power.

A friend here has a rooftop solar system, and only one meter.

I presume when his system feeds the utility, the meter runs in reverse.

 

[JeffKeryk]

A friend here has a rooftop solar system, and only one meter.

I presume when his system feeds the utility, the meter runs in reverse.

That's how mine works. I am supposed to get a credit or whatever.

With net metering, the PG&E only bills for the amount of electricity you use in excess of what your solar system produces. At least that's my understanding. I have not had an annual true up; the panels were switched on 5 years ago this month. I love my solar. $9 per month here in the land of filthy expensive energy. Sometimes $0. In fact, I think they owe me $85 or something. All good. Except I still hate PG&E cuz they burn down our forrests and they blew up San Bruno.

 

[mattd]

Well that’s not how it works. The panels are either connected directly to the grid or to your house, not both. You are not using the power produced by the panels and only send back the excess. That is not how it works, you send 100% of solar power back to the grid.

Edit: unless you build some sort of hidden transfer panel that would not get inspected. Which I doubt you would do.

Mine is grid tied and I send back what I can’t use at any given time. It’s called net metering. There is one meter on the house. It will run backward when I am producing more than I can consume.

 

[KrisZ]

Mine is grid tied and I send back what I can’t use at any given time. It’s called net metering. There is one meter on the house. It will run backward when I am producing more than I can consume.

OP didn't specify how many meters he will have, hence I'm pointing out the possibility. These programs may have the same name but be implemented differently.

All the new installations I looked at in CA around 2018-2019 had two meters, one for the house and one for the panels. You paid your electricity as normal, but would be credited for the electricity your panels generated. And it was not kwh to kwh. The kwh you generated were credited at a much lower rate than the kwh you used and paid for. Also, that rate was not locked in and got lower for my neighbors that went with the installations.

Perhaps other states with much less solar implementation still use kwh to kwh net metering as an incentive, but I would make sure that is the case. And they giveaway should be two meters.

 

[UncleDave]

I'm doing solar in my new garage build. Zero export mode. I'll probably never make back close to what I spend bur I am ok with that.

Sol Ark - cool.

I looked at this and the skybox, but the skybox was gimped at 6K, and the Sol Ark isnt rated for outdoor use.

I ended up with Enphase IQ8's. Pretty happy with them.

Curious to see your setup when it's done.

 

[UncleDave]

Just seeing how many of you have solar power for your home? Are you happy with it, and was it worth the cost, and has it eliminated your electrical bill other than “staying connected” cost?

I have a quote for a 9.5kW system for my home, 28 panels (jinko) with a single string solar edge inverter with power optimizers on the back of each solar panel. 25 year warranty on everything. I am not leasing, the cost is about 46,000 and I will pay the same as my electric bill for 25 years @2.99%. Federal incentive is $11,750 and state is $3,220 for this, which I could just put right back on the loan. Biggest reason for going Solar now is there is going to be a 40-50% increase in electric rates this winter in my area.

Look forward to your experiences.

Have it - yes. Actually in two forms Photovoltaic and water heating. Ive had in it some form or another for the last 20 years.

Happy with it - deliriously. ROI is better than predicted - under 5 years in my use case. Pool heating ROI is one season.

Has it eliminated bills - YES AND reduced my Nat gas consumption because I can shift to electric room heat while keeping the main spaces in the house a few degrees cooler, but still be as warm (well... let the wife stay warmer and guests) as they like in a given room.

8K / 20 Qcells/ Enphase IQ8 I overproduce and average of 100KW a week in the off season.
(about a full "tank" in an EV a week if I had one)

For water heating I have 12 X 4x10 heating a 900 gallon spa and a 20K pool.

 

[Snagglefoot]

OP didn't specify how many meters he will have, hence I'm pointing out the possibility. These programs may have the same name but be implemented differently.

All the new installations I looked at in CA around 2018-2019 had two meters, one for the house and one for the panels. You paid your electricity as normal, but would be credited for the electricity your panels generated. And it was not kwh to kwh. The kwh you generated were credited at a much lower rate than the kwh you used and paid for. Also, that rate was not locked in and got lower for my neighbors that went with the installations.

Perhaps other states with much less solar implementation still use kwh to kwh net metering as an incentive, but I would make sure that is the case. And they giveaway should be two meters.

Fair enough. Net metering gets mentioned a lot and it’s what they use in my area. Also we already have digital remote metering. I’ll take a few pics.

Like you mentioned we get credited at a lower rate. It’s 10 cents a kwhr to buy from the utility ( BC Hydro) and they buy our solar power for 4 cents a kWhr. I have no interest in selling them power, so I wouldn't want to over do it on the number of panels.

 

[BeerCan]

Sol Ark - cool.

I looked at this and the skybox, but the skybox was gimped at 6K, and the Sol Ark isnt rated for outdoor use.

I ended up with Enphase IQ8's. Pretty happy with them.

Curious to see your setup when it's done.

I was going to get deye but wanted something with a little better support for this install. I mounted it inside but I am pretty sure the 15k is outdoor rated.

Getting ready to start on the dc side of the installation next week. I am still trying to decide on what bms I am going to use.

 

[KrisZ]

Fair enough. Net metering gets mentioned a lot and it’s what they use in my area. Also we already have digital remote metering. I’ll take a few pics.

Like you mentioned we get credited at a lower rate. It’s 10 cents a kwhr to buy from the utility ( BC Hydro) and they buy our solar power for 4 cents a kWhr. I have no interest in selling them power, so I wouldn't want to over do it on the number of panels.

You have to do more research or take a look at your contract. Like I mentioned earlier, solar panels are not powering your home. They are not both connected to your home and the grid. They are only connected to the grid. They do not work by "powering" your home and then sending the excess, if there is any, to the grid.

Like others mentioned, with one meter, that is simply done by reversing the meter. This is the best deal because you are deducted a kwh for each kwh produced and sent back to the grid. None of that is sent to your home though.
With two meters, it's just a simple calculation, they look at how many kwh you used vs how many you produced and give you credit for the kwh produced.

Perhaps your contract is different, you may be getting each kwh you produced back for each kwh used and then if there is any excess, you get paid $0.10 per kwh. It could be this way I guess. In which case that's a pretty good deal.

The contracts I was looking at paid for ALL kwh produced a certain amount which then was credited to the bill.

 

[UncleDave]

You have to do more research or take a look at your contract. Like I mentioned earlier, solar panels are not powering your home. They are not both connected to your home and the grid. They are only connected to the grid. They do not work by "powering" your home and then sending the excess, if there is any, to the grid.

Like others mentioned, with one meter, that is simply done by reversing the meter. This is the best deal because you are deducted a kwh for each kwh produced and sent back to the grid. None of that is sent to your home though.
With two meters, it's just a simple calculation, they look at how many kwh you used vs how many you produced and give you credit for the kwh produced.

Perhaps your contract is different, you may be getting each kwh you produced back for each kwh used and then if there is any excess, you get paid $0.10 per kwh. It could be this way I guess. In which case that's a pretty good deal.

The contracts I was looking at paid for ALL kwh produced a certain amount which then was credited to the bill.

Here in Cali the dual meter setups were almost all older analog style, the stuff in the last 8-10 years here is all a unified smart meter.

Whether you feed the grid or self support during productivity is a function of the inverter system you get.

a vast majority feed the grid vs support the house with solar, but thats becoming a popular option.

 

[UncleDave]

I was going to get deye but wanted something with a little better support for this install. I mounted it inside but I am pretty sure the 15k is outdoor rated.

Getting ready to start on the dc side of the installation next week. I am still trying to decide on what bms I am going to use.

Thats good for sol ark- eager to hear what kind of performance you'll be getting.