By the way there are other diversions along the way. Specifically, there are several "is Lucas UCL just PIB" threads.
HMW polyisobutylene
- Thread starter GMorg
- Start date
- Status
I haven't tried it and am not convinced. The fact that its P is neglegable combined with a good burn(low PM) would have me more comfy about the cat but if it actually does what we're looking for is a different matter. Seeing it referenced with GTA and some of the results just have me hopefull and no more than that.
I did more digging.
Looks like PIB in GTA FA/Viscon is ultra HMW of 7,200,000.
PIB in 2-stroke oils is LMW of only 400-1500.
Different animals indeed.
References:
Patent on 2-stroke oil with PIB MW=950
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6300290.html
Patent for viscon with PIB MW >4 MD
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5906665.html
Looks like PIB in GTA FA/Viscon is ultra HMW of 7,200,000.
PIB in 2-stroke oils is LMW of only 400-1500.
Different animals indeed.
References:
Patent on 2-stroke oil with PIB MW=950
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6300290.html
Patent for viscon with PIB MW >4 MD
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5906665.html
It looks like this HMW-PIB stuff will not be available anymore. Does anyone know why? Did Big Oil buy them out? Maybe the CIA shut them down.
dek,
As stated on the previous page of this thread, the manufacturer is now targeting the commercial market.
Provided by friendly_jacek (member# 1425) and written by Alan Roth:
"Unfortunately, such sales are a victim of success.
GTA Fuel Enhancer (aka Viscon) has been certified to reduce harmful emissions by the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) and certification by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) is now imminent. Viscon now provides the means to diesel engine operators to meet stringent Texas emission standards and therefore the product has already been used to treat hundreds of millions of gallons of diesel fuel in that state.
The manufacturer of Viscon, GTAT, LLC, has changed hands due to a buy-out and the new owner wants to focus exclusively on the commercial diesel market. They will be selling directly to diesel fuel suppliers and large fleets. The consumer market was never a priority for the manufacturer and the new owner sees it as an unnecessary distraction from the large diesel market."
As stated on the previous page of this thread, the manufacturer is now targeting the commercial market.
Provided by friendly_jacek (member# 1425) and written by Alan Roth:
"Unfortunately, such sales are a victim of success.
GTA Fuel Enhancer (aka Viscon) has been certified to reduce harmful emissions by the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) and certification by the California Air Resources Board (CARB) is now imminent. Viscon now provides the means to diesel engine operators to meet stringent Texas emission standards and therefore the product has already been used to treat hundreds of millions of gallons of diesel fuel in that state.
The manufacturer of Viscon, GTAT, LLC, has changed hands due to a buy-out and the new owner wants to focus exclusively on the commercial diesel market. They will be selling directly to diesel fuel suppliers and large fleets. The consumer market was never a priority for the manufacturer and the new owner sees it as an unnecessary distraction from the large diesel market."
Thanks for the recap. Hopefully, someone will come along and place a large order for the gasoline folks and then distribute it.
Rev'd my refund for my order this AM. They found my order/email in the spam bin and immediately wrote offering to fulfill the order or issue a refund. I wrote that if it was true that the Viscon product would no longer be available, I'd rather have a refund. Too bad, because I'd really have liked to try it. Oh, well, I guess maybe I'm out of junk on hand and will have to finally get some FP60.
I updated my PIB/mileage spreadsheet today and thought that I should share. I have been confounding the PIB data with various other adds, but I have tried to make sure that it is clear where that has occurred. The means (+/- 95% confidence limit) for no PIB verses with PIB are 20.67 +/- 0.49 verses 21.60 +/- 0.57 respectively. The last data entry is doubly confounded in that I not only used a 2-stroke oil as a diluent, but it finally cold here.
Code:
Date Odometer Gals Metered Miles Calc
17-Feb-06 9793
28-Feb-06 10121 17.36 19.6 328 18.89
9-Mar-06 10528 18.8 22.3 407 21.65 PIB
21-Mar-06 10914 18.8 20.8 386 20.53
3-Apr-06 11286 18.4 21 372 20.22
9-Apr-06 11597 14.38 22.7 311 21.63 PIB
13-Apr-06 11930 15.06 23 333 22.11 PIB
24-Apr-06 12365 19.7 22.9 435 22.08 PIB
5-May-06 12792 19.5 22.3 427 21.90
14-Jun-06 16255
22-Jun-06 16610 16.5 22.5 355 21.52
30-Jun-06 16880 14.4 20.6 270 18.75
10-Jul-06 17185 14.8 21 305 20.61
17-Jul-06 17444 12.85 20.9 259 20.16 MMO
20-Jul-06 17787 14.8 22.9 343 23.18 MMO/PIB
27-Jul-06 18131 15.4 23 344 22.34 MMO/PIB
4-Aug-06 18618 21.3 23.6 487 22.86 MMO/PIB
11-Aug-06 18928 14.3 22.5 310 21.68
25-Aug-06 20119 10.8 21.5
27-Aug-06 20466 16 22.9 347 21.69
20-Sep-06 20896 21.4 20.6 430 20.09
26-Sep-06 21223 15.1 22.3 327 21.66
4-Oct-06 21557 15.5 21.7 334 21.55 MMO/PIB
12-Oct-06 21880 15.1 22.3 323 21.39 MMO/PIB
20-Oct-06 22307 19.9 21.7 427 21.46 MMO/PIB
27-Oct-06 22730 20.3 21.5 423 20.84 Lucas UCL
3-Nov-06 23022 13.9 22.7 292 21.01 Lucas/PIB
6-Nov-06 23342 15 21.9 320 21.33 Stabil/PIB
18-Nov-06 23775 20.4 21.9 433 21.23 MMO/PIB
24-Nov-06 24104 15.5 21.3 329 21.23
2-Dec-06 24478 18.4 21.7 374 20.33
17-Dec-06 24833 19.2 19.3 355 18.49 2-stroke/PIB
Code:
Date Odometer Gals Metered Miles Calc
17-Feb-06 9793
28-Feb-06 10121 17.36 19.6 328 18.89
9-Mar-06 10528 18.8 22.3 407 21.65 PIB
21-Mar-06 10914 18.8 20.8 386 20.53
3-Apr-06 11286 18.4 21 372 20.22
9-Apr-06 11597 14.38 22.7 311 21.63 PIB
13-Apr-06 11930 15.06 23 333 22.11 PIB
24-Apr-06 12365 19.7 22.9 435 22.08 PIB
5-May-06 12792 19.5 22.3 427 21.90
14-Jun-06 16255
22-Jun-06 16610 16.5 22.5 355 21.52
30-Jun-06 16880 14.4 20.6 270 18.75
10-Jul-06 17185 14.8 21 305 20.61
17-Jul-06 17444 12.85 20.9 259 20.16 MMO
20-Jul-06 17787 14.8 22.9 343 23.18 MMO/PIB
27-Jul-06 18131 15.4 23 344 22.34 MMO/PIB
4-Aug-06 18618 21.3 23.6 487 22.86 MMO/PIB
11-Aug-06 18928 14.3 22.5 310 21.68
25-Aug-06 20119 10.8 21.5
27-Aug-06 20466 16 22.9 347 21.69
20-Sep-06 20896 21.4 20.6 430 20.09
26-Sep-06 21223 15.1 22.3 327 21.66
4-Oct-06 21557 15.5 21.7 334 21.55 MMO/PIB
12-Oct-06 21880 15.1 22.3 323 21.39 MMO/PIB
20-Oct-06 22307 19.9 21.7 427 21.46 MMO/PIB
27-Oct-06 22730 20.3 21.5 423 20.84 Lucas UCL
3-Nov-06 23022 13.9 22.7 292 21.01 Lucas/PIB
6-Nov-06 23342 15 21.9 320 21.33 Stabil/PIB
18-Nov-06 23775 20.4 21.9 433 21.23 MMO/PIB
24-Nov-06 24104 15.5 21.3 329 21.23
2-Dec-06 24478 18.4 21.7 374 20.33
17-Dec-06 24833 19.2 19.3 355 18.49 2-stroke/PIB
GNorg
have you ever tryed the high MW PIB's used as "tackifiers" in lube oils?
bruce
have you ever tryed the high MW PIB's used as "tackifiers" in lube oils?
bruce
Bruce381 wrote: "have you ever tryed the high MW PIB's used as "tackifiers" in lube oils?"
I don't know for sure. I think that the GTA material is much higher molecular weight than the standard tackifier. On the other hand, I have almost convinced myself that Lucas and some 2-stroke oils are probably fairly close to standard tackifiers. I have used both lucas UCL and several 2-stroke oils. I have not observed any benefits with Lucas UCL. On the other hand, when experimenting with ashless 2-stroke oils, I have observed decreased mileage and sudden darkening of my oil several times. I don't have records to support those observations though.
I don't know for sure. I think that the GTA material is much higher molecular weight than the standard tackifier. On the other hand, I have almost convinced myself that Lucas and some 2-stroke oils are probably fairly close to standard tackifiers. I have used both lucas UCL and several 2-stroke oils. I have not observed any benefits with Lucas UCL. On the other hand, when experimenting with ashless 2-stroke oils, I have observed decreased mileage and sudden darkening of my oil several times. I don't have records to support those observations though.
The Tckifiers will make oils very sticky at about 1% but a If you want some email me I'll send a pint or so.
bruce
bruce
I think that the 2-stroke oils use up two about 800 kilodaltons (0.8 megadaltons). Are the tackifiers any larger than that?
we talkd before about this I do not know that rating only MW but yes the pib used in tackifiers is very high compared to the PIB used in 2 stroke which is lower I have both avalible if you want to test aswell as additives to make oil/fuel "wet" out on hot metal. I seems to me that the "wetting" or surface tension changes up or down is what would/could lead to better fuel economy I just do not know what or how much of any additive to use I have them If you want to try things email me.
bruce
bruce
bruce
bruce
Thanks for the offer Bruce. I need to track down a recommended dose range before I ask someone to go out of their way. I will PM you when I know more.
I bought some pink GTA back in 04. Researching it led me to BITOG. I just use it to dope the 93 octane I run solely to pass emissions NOx test. So far so good, I passed NOx with a good margin at 330kmiles with the original cat. I have enough for maybe 2 more tests. I would like very much to find a source for it though.
I wonder if cyclohexanone would be good diluent/solvent for PIB...
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...0816#Post781460
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...0816#Post781460
I realize that this thread is old, but I cam across the company website for this additive. I seems that they still don't produce any DIY packaging since they stopped in '06.
http://www.visconusa.com/
http://www.visconusa.com/
Last edited:
I curious why/how this thread jumped from fuel additives to oil additives. I guess that if you raise something from dead, then unnatural things can happen.
Looks like a HMW PIB fuel additive is available at the retail level again: Viscon- Retail Locations
Most are in Southern California, but so am I.
Most are in Southern California, but so am I.
You beat me to it! I saw the same when I came across an old Viscon link last week in my favorites from a few years ago.
I was going to do a right up titled "Viscon; The Holy Grail of Fuel Additives????" and then post this threads link for everyone to reference to along with the early discussions about Viscon on BITOG and some other sites....oh well.
I just didn't post anything up here because I wanted to go back through my e-mails I had with the owner of Viscon regarding the old distributors and some controversy with one of them who was selling their additive along with questionable business practices since they were packaging it themselves, but from what he said, "Retail" was never his goal because of all the snake oils and the major investment to try and market it with 100's of products on the Parts Stores shelves, so he always concentrated and mainstreamed this additive for years to the industrial markets. It was a good story, and I couldn't believe I was actually talking to the Pres. of the company but this stuff turned out to be substantially genuine.
From what I remember about the phone conversation I had with the owner of Viscon, he gave me a real education of what he was trying to achieve for over 10 yrs. and his goal was to get Calif. to require all diesel fuel to add Viscon at the fuel depot rack. I think he said it would be a miracle if it happened let alone added to all gasoline also at the fuel rack. From what I remember, it was a huge amount of "Red Tape" this guy was dealing with, and I, and even he figured he'd never get the C.A.R.B. approval.
Looks like he finally got his approval as the "Only" fuel additive in the industry approved by the "California Air Resource Board" which is supposed to be substantially significant.....!
News Story on CARB Approval
CARB Approval Docs.
Here is their other website I found a few years ago:
Viscon International Site
Here are their 5 Youtube Videos:
Viscon Videos
Pretty exciting. I wonder if we should all buy stock in this company!
I always wanted to try this stuff, but my cars are too screwed up now! Maybe it'll save me some "Moolah" on my 91' Brougham because my 3-4 band has been burned up for a year and I drive around town with only 1st and 2nd! At least my coast band isn't holding in this 700R4 trans. so I can leave off the throttle w/o any trans breaking.
Now I need to find an additive to restore my 3-4 band!
I just realized this thread was in the "Oil Additive" section. Maybe I'll start a new thread in the "Fuel Additive" section............
Regards,
Chris
I was going to do a right up titled "Viscon; The Holy Grail of Fuel Additives????" and then post this threads link for everyone to reference to along with the early discussions about Viscon on BITOG and some other sites....oh well.
I just didn't post anything up here because I wanted to go back through my e-mails I had with the owner of Viscon regarding the old distributors and some controversy with one of them who was selling their additive along with questionable business practices since they were packaging it themselves, but from what he said, "Retail" was never his goal because of all the snake oils and the major investment to try and market it with 100's of products on the Parts Stores shelves, so he always concentrated and mainstreamed this additive for years to the industrial markets. It was a good story, and I couldn't believe I was actually talking to the Pres. of the company but this stuff turned out to be substantially genuine.
From what I remember about the phone conversation I had with the owner of Viscon, he gave me a real education of what he was trying to achieve for over 10 yrs. and his goal was to get Calif. to require all diesel fuel to add Viscon at the fuel depot rack. I think he said it would be a miracle if it happened let alone added to all gasoline also at the fuel rack. From what I remember, it was a huge amount of "Red Tape" this guy was dealing with, and I, and even he figured he'd never get the C.A.R.B. approval.
Looks like he finally got his approval as the "Only" fuel additive in the industry approved by the "California Air Resource Board" which is supposed to be substantially significant.....!
News Story on CARB Approval
CARB Approval Docs.
Here is their other website I found a few years ago:
Viscon International Site
Here are their 5 Youtube Videos:
Viscon Videos
Pretty exciting. I wonder if we should all buy stock in this company!
I always wanted to try this stuff, but my cars are too screwed up now! Maybe it'll save me some "Moolah" on my 91' Brougham because my 3-4 band has been burned up for a year and I drive around town with only 1st and 2nd! At least my coast band isn't holding in this 700R4 trans. so I can leave off the throttle w/o any trans breaking.
Now I need to find an additive to restore my 3-4 band!
I just realized this thread was in the "Oil Additive" section. Maybe I'll start a new thread in the "Fuel Additive" section............
Regards,
Chris
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked