hiring woes....

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
I am from gen x kinda, I'm only 19


Kinda? Not by a long shot. Though I'm not going to get into the current generation or their work ethic discussion.

-Spyder

 

[Lead Shoes]

I think the current teenage generation has an EXTREMELY poor work ethic and expects everything to be handed to them...

 

[rationull]

Kids these days... [censored] whippersnappers.

Hey.. Hey!! Get off my lawn you punks!! [Shakes cane]



LOL! Seriously, guys? There are plenty of hard workers and plenty of lazy people all over the place. In my experience at work, I have noticed pretty much no correlation between age and work ethic. I've worked with top notch people and dead weight, and plenty of people in between.

But hey, maybe when I'm as old as some of you guys I'll change my mind

 

[rationull]

Oh, and on topic, I feel your pain! We've been trying to hire for a long time (software engineering) and while we have come across some good ones some of them are just laughable. Getting good information from interviews is definitely a challenge.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: rationull
Oh, and on topic, I feel your pain! We've been trying to hire for a long time (software engineering) and while we have come across some good ones some of them are just laughable. Getting good information from interviews is definitely a challenge.


I found the same thing. A couple of hires who presented among the best on interviews wound up being among my biggest regrets.

The bulk of my workforce worked for just above minimum wage. I had little latitude in wages as we were already being undercut everywhere by our major competitor, and paying more would have priced us out of business. Our clients, in turn, expected top notch performance not realizing they got what they paid for. I realized, in turn, that so did we.

My best employees were consistently retired boomers who worked to supplement their pensions and occupy their time. Meantime a couple boomers (not retired) were among my worst, making it pretty hard to pick a demographic that I could honestly say was the worst, as I encountered various issues with every age demographic.

I personally found references useless, as, excluding the exception mentioned above, potential employees will exclude employers who can say anything negative about them, while all potential employees can find a few people to put down as a reference who will talk them up.

Ultimately, no matter how carefully you screened the applicants, it was still hit or miss. The only upshot was that the screw ups and screw offs tended to do so early on, which made the termination process much simpler where here you can terminate within 90 days without giving cause to do so.

After 90 days it can become more of a mess, and we had one manager in particular, senior most that was subordinate to me, who we (as in myself, HR, and the company president) unanimously wanted to get rid of but were caught in a catch-22 as he had enough freedom in his position that nothing could be pinned down to him, and if we termed him without ironclad cause, we exposed ourselves to potential litigation. He was still there when I left the company.

-Spyder

 

[grampi]

Maybe its what you're paying. Like one of the earlier posters said, you can't live indoors these days on $10 an hour. If you're paying garbage wages, you'll get garbage employees...

 

[fdcg27]

You cannot correlate work ethic with age.
That is no more than stereotyping.
Most young people who want to get anywhere have a strong work ethic.
Both of my sons do, and I am proud of them.
OTOH, we have a few people at work who are within a couple of years of retirement who have become no more than office decorations.
The unforunate reality is that a good hire is often hard to identify, and so bad hiring decisions are made every day.

 

[Virtuoso]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
You cannot correlate work ethic with age.
That is no more than stereotyping.
Most young people who want to get anywhere have a strong work ethic.
Both of my sons do, and I am proud of them.
OTOH, we have a few people at work who are within a couple of years of retirement who have become no more than office decorations.
The unforunate reality is that a good hire is often hard to identify, and so bad hiring decisions are made every day.



Truth!!

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
...I now hire on knowhow if you can do the job and do it perfect your hired i dont care if you cant spell your name as long as you can do the job...

I applaud your common sense. After having been passed over for promotions so that I could train my new college degree'd supervisor idiots, I am now back in school myself. Sure I learned some stuff, but I'm not any smarter.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: 90Notch
I find that interviews aren't as helpful as references. In addition, good work ethic, in my opinion, is intrinsic. Either you have it or you don't.


References and perhaps a practical interview. Ask them to bring overalls as if you like them, you will give them a practical exam in the shop. Have them change the oil in the parts runner, or at least have them point out the drain plug, the oil filter, what tools they will use and how to determine how much new oil is needed to refill the crankcase.

No reason an interview cannot include a practical demonstration of the skills you require.

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: finalyzd
Well recently car count at my shop has grown quite a bit. So I've needed to hire a new lube technician and a cashier. So I've got a great cashier now shes awesome does great work. But now here's the hard part. FINDING A REAL LUBE TECHNICIAN. I've literally been threw so many interviews and day tryouts I can't find anyone good. So one guy comes in yesterday fills out a application and I interview him on the spot. He seems confident,motivated and boasts about being a dam good mechanic(which is great we do almost everything) so I try him out the next day and the headaches begin......... first he cannot put on a wiper blade to save his life, second a 2011 subaru forester comes in and he DRAINS THE TRANS FLUID… boy did that make me look stupid. And cost me some money. I let him work alittle longer and he's as slow as a snail. He's gone before the day ends. I just don't get it how come I cannot find a good tech? The bulk of people applying are students from a automotive school that want high pay and have no experience in a shop environment, which is fine because you have to start somewhere. but you are chasing a dream if you think I'm going to pay you 20 an hour starting just because you passed a class. And dam what are these schools teaching these kids! Anyways sorry guys for the rant. I'm just irritated. Thanks for listening


Man, I feel your pain!
I'm getting ready to retire soon and the people that my company is interviewing or letting in under contract with 4-6 years of college are so stupid and unsocial it's a pitty. Even those with, so called "experience" leave alot to be desired. And you can't tell'em anything cause they already know it all! They all think that "they're all that"!

Lab, engineering, management, operations...OMG!

 

[antonmnster]

I know people who came out of "automotive" programs who couldn't change their own oil. It's really a head-scratcher.

I acquired all of my automotive skill by simply being curious, and because I HAD to.

My first car was a Saab that was a stolen recovery and had a bad engine. I really wanted THAT car (16 year old stubbornness) and I had to figure out how to put it together. I ended up driving that car from MN to CA to WA and bought a few more over the years that also needed major work.

I discovered that I could by a whole lot of car if I was willing to do some work and learn new skills.

Does my current employer appreciate my drive? Not really, but that's because I work for the government... these days that requires being something of a masochist.

 

[TurboLuver]

Originally Posted By: 04SE
Welcome to the work ethics of Generation X.


Complete nonsense

 

[wander2039]

Couple years ago I tried getting a part-time job at Autozone. Answered every question to a "T" and still didn't get the job guess I knew to much. Probably couldn't get a job as a lube tech either. Although I got hired as lube tech at Monkey Ward's about ten years ago and I'm 10x more knowledgeable than I was back then. In my experience from IT/security those with the most common sense has turned out the best.. so ask questions like which way does a clock turn, where's north/south/east/west etc.

 

[EricF]

Unfortunately in California you have to be very careful what you ask and especially HOW you ask it. the state's full of sue happy people.

If I lived closer to fairfield, I'd love to apply!
Although I do enjoy my parts gig a lot too.

when I worked for autozone (embarrassed to say, but in 2002, they were hiring and took my hobby into my profession). Well I achieved a store managership as well as an interviewing certificate. They had a script that was to be followed to the letter. It was legal to ask these questions/statements in all 50 states assuming everythng was read word for word. It actually worked. People would admit all sorts of weird stuff to you. And I never faulted them for honesty. Of the 60 people I hired, only 2 turned out to be lemons, 1 guy turned out to be a wannabe pastor and preached in the store, constantly.. fortunately.. it wasn't my store! But it was a hassle to deal with him.
I'd start out by asking them basics.. if you had to do a tuneup on a 74 chevy truck with a 350motor, what would you replace, and money is NO object. See if they know what HEI vs. a points setup vs. a 2bbl vs. a 4bbl carb. and use some basic trickery..
I'd always get someone thinking that a TBI was actually a fancy "quadrajunk" carburator. WRONG!
It kinda narrows down the wannabe's who only concentrated on older small blocks vs. modern cars.
My favorite was.. give me a list of parts for a tune on a small block chevy. Very few people actually asked me.. what year!
And when they'd list parts with a points/condensor, I'd say you're wrong.. a 2001 chevy 350 motor does not have points.
Then I get the.. well that's not a small block! WELL.. it is. you never asked me what year.
It makes a Counterman use common sense as well as a need for theory. We have to know a little about everything.. it gets insane after a while.

You could also tell your candidate.. I'm going to change the oil on this car. YOU tell me what to do. (he's not an employee and isn't insured). Make him stand to the side. If he says the right things.. tell him it's his turn tomorrow, give him a day and watch him. when he messes up, point it out and see what the response will be.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: javacontour

References and perhaps a practical interview. Ask them to bring overalls as if you like them, you will give them a practical exam in the shop. Have them change the oil in the parts runner, or at least have them point out the drain plug, the oil filter, what tools they will use and how to determine how much new oil is needed to refill the crankcase.

No reason an interview cannot include a practical demonstration of the skills you require.


I think Java hit on something here, in that the position your hiring for gives you a natural asset in providing you with a very useful tool that is probably also your best one for separating the wheat from the chaff. I'd use the traditional resume and interview as a starting point, then some kind of short and simple practical for those who pass the interview phase, to determine whether or not they can live up to the expectations produced by the interview.

The reference check is then reserved for the final part of the hiring phase.

There is much truth in the adage you get what you pay for. From my experience, unless they are retired and doing it for supplemental pay and something to fill their idle hours (these employees have such a strong work ethic that even in retirement they still opted to work even when most of mine didn't have to by any measure, and that was apparent in that they were consistently also my best and most valued employees), you'll attract the level of talent you pay to attract.

You may luck into the one off employee who is talented and has a strong work ethic who is content to take a short-term job that pays less than what they know they are worth, but they don't stick around as that job is just a transitional one they go into - regardless of what they say in the interview - knowing that its the preferable alternative to EI while they continue the job hunt.

I've done this myself. There have been times I've hit the breaking point in a job and simply walked because I know I don't need to stay. I abhor everything about EI and don't even bother to apply. Instead I apply for the jobs that pay what I know I'm worth and which I prefer to do, but knowing how competitive they are, I also apply for the sure bets that pay less owing to a preference to work - even if it means 2 jobs - over being idle and on EI.

I go in saying all of the right things in the interview (having been on the other side as the one doing the interviewing gives me an even bigger advantage in that regard today) and always get the job. I show up on time, do exactly what is expected - and many times more - but the entire time I'm spending my time outside the job looking for the one that I really want to do and pays better. In time, always within 6 months, I find it and move on to it.

Just something else to keep in mind that hasn't really been discussed. A fair system of raises that takes into account that the employee will naturally become more productive and versatile as he grows into the position over time, goes along away toward retention as well. Especially when the raise system and any performance criteria are explained up front and then adhered to in good faith.

-Spyder

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: 04SE
Welcome to the work ethics of Generation X.


Working in hiring of a decent company I disagree.

I think every older generation believe this load of $$$$, back to your generation and likely previous.

Sounds like a bad hiring choice. Happens. Good luck.

 

[meep]

THERE IS AN ART TO INTERVIEWING!!!

You can't ask direct questions, either because they can be unethical or because the answers are too easy to fake. This from above was a GREAT example.

"i.e. "Tell me about a time at a past job where you had to take charge of an unpleasant situation." or "Give me an example of how you had to resolve a customer service issue you knew was not your fault."

Tell me about the hardest rebuild/repair/OC you did, what made it hard, and how you succeeded.

Tell me about the best job you ever did at handling an unfair assignment.

Do you think you work well under pressure? You do? Awesome! Give me an example!

Have you ever been thrown an assignment that was too much for you to handle? How did you do get thru it?

You'll learn a lot...

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: 04SE
Welcome to the work ethics of Generation X.


Working in hiring of a decent company I disagree.

I think every older generation believe this load of $$$$, back to your generation and likely previous.

Sounds like a bad hiring choice. Happens. Good luck.


Age doesn't matter. Enthusiasm and ability to learn are the most important factors when I hire. Obviously, when looking for seasoned people, it is not realistic to expect a young person. But for entry level positions both young and older people are suitable candidates and I look for knowledge, dedication and enthusiasm.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: 04SE
Welcome to the work ethics of Generation X.


Generation X has been in the workforce for decades. I doubt he was hiring 40-somethings. Most likely Gen-Y'ers or Millenials

Boomers had already coined the phrase "Slacker" for Gen-X before they even entered the workforce.
Boomers had already sold out by then. Traded their own children's future for a BMW and a pasta-machine. Thanks dirty hippy sellouts.
What if Generation X wasn't your whipping boy? Who would you blame then?