High zinc and hydraulic lifters

[Haakon]

Saw this post from an eminent Renault specialist down here in Australia, and thought it may be of interest for broader discussion here.

Not wanting this to be a gotcha moment for this bloke, just keen to learn what’s going on here and what we can all learn. I love being wrong - it means I learnt something new!

The suggestion is that a high zinc oil or a zinc additive causes hydraulic lifter sticking that was resolved with an intensive flush. For our American friends, the engine in question is a normal design twin cam 4 cylinder with lifters and roller rockers under the cam.

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[tedsweet]

non sense

 

[Jetronic]

Phosphate glass films are high friction. But I doubt the friction would be so high that it causes lifter sticking. But maybe the ZDDP used was too fast acting, building up very thick layers?

I don't have facebook, so can't see the original post. Was it a ZDDP additive used or a High zddp fully formulated oil? And what concentration are we talking about? And what about MoDTC and calcium content?

 

[Haakon]

Phosphate glass films are high friction. But I doubt the friction would be so high that it causes lifter sticking. But maybe the ZDDP used was too fast acting, building up very thick layers?

I don't have facebook, so can't see the original post. Was it a ZDDP additive used or a High zddp fully formulated oil? And what concentration are we talking about? And what about MoDTC and calcium content?

As far as I can tell, the complaint is about this oil https://penriteoil.com.au/products/hpr-5-5w-40-full-synthetic

Its a highish ZDDP oil and pretty well regarded and widely used here in Australia. Used it myself for years in my Renaults with this same F4R engine with no ill effects

The post was about a sticky lifter in a Megane 2 Sport - 2 litre F4R turbo with only 33K kms on it. Super low kms for such an old Megane, so I'm tipping its had an awful low of short trips and perhaps sat around a lot with old oil in it - and was a bit sludgy.

The claim made was the use of this "high zinc" oil caused a blocked gallery/sticky lifter literally overnight that required the use of an intensive flushing agent to clear.

 

[Jetronic]

It's high-ish but not terribly high. That's not my issue with that oil.

I do have issue with them claiming to be MB229.5 approved, but they're not to be found on the list of approved oils provided by Mercedes-Benz. So we can't be sure it meets any of the performance and cleanliness requirements required for that approval. In fact it means there are no approvals whatsoever, as ACEA is a self certification. It does appear to be API SP licensed though, at least.

Lifters collapsing isn't anything new, it's like hotel california for sludge and dirt in general.

 

[Haakon]

It's high-ish but not terribly high. That's not my issue with that oil.

I do have issue with them claiming to be MB229.5 approved, but they're not to be found on the list of approved oils provided by Mercedes-Benz. So we can't be sure it meets any of the performance and cleanliness requirements required for that approval. In fact it means there are no approvals whatsoever, as ACEA is a self certification. It does appear to be API SP licensed though, at least.

Lifters collapsing isn't anything new, it's like hotel california for sludge and dirt in general.

Penrite doesnt make oil - they buy their base stock in and do some blending with their own ideas of what's good for additives and then its all marketing. Which is all fine, and its a perfectly fine oil - nothing special, not terrible.

But the marketing side of the equation quite probably leads to some "heroic" claims