High Performance Lubricants No VII series engine oils.
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I wish they'd post the SpG with the other data.
Noticed in post 661 that the Redline shows a different ASTM procedure for measuring the HTHS. Amsoil uses the same ASTM procedure as HPL, which is ASTM D5481 and shows the shear rate is 1.4 x 10^6/sec. Whereas ASTM D4741 is at the old typical 1.0 x 10^6/sec shear rate. So if the Redline was tested for HTHS per D5481 it's probably going to be lower than 3.1 cP.
Amsoil
Redline
Amsoil
Redline
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The SG of those two oils at 15C (59F) would have to be close to 870 kg/m^3 (same as SG of 0.870 since water is 1000 kg/m^3, ie, SG of 1) for them to make the HTHS claimed. If the oil SG was higher than that, it would be easier to make the claimed HTHS number per the calculations sniff test check. The SG of the oil at 150C is going to be less than at the 15C reference point.
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Doesn't look like the ASTM test standards to measure the HTHS viscosity accounts for any pressure-viscosity coefficient (PVC), so the measured HTHS is simply the dynamic viscosity under a minimal shear stress (ie, any pressure that constitute a PVC factor).
Esters can have high SpGs. Esterex NP451 (POE) is ~0.990 and Exterex NP343 (TMP) is ~0.945. A typical 5-6 cSt PAO is ~0.825. Add packs can be quite dense as well at 0.95-1.05. VIIs are typically >0.9 as well. Let's say the add pack, any top treatment, and VII average to 0.95 and account for 15% of the total volume. Let's assume another 15% is a POE also with SpG 0.95 (for easier math in my head) and is blended in a 6 cSt PAO base that makes up the other 70%.
SpG1 = 0.825 x 7 x 1g/cm^3 = 5.775
SpG2 = 0.950 x 3 x 1g/cm^3 = 2.850
SpG(mix) = (5.775 + 2.850) / (7 + 3) = 8.625 / 10 = 0.8625
Seems a bit low. Let's try 20% POE. (add pack + VII + POE = 35% of volume)
SpG1 = 0.825 x 13 x 1g/cm^3 = 10.725
SpG2 = 0.950 x 7 x 1g/cm^3 = 6.650
SpG(mix) = (10.725 + 6.650) / (13+7) = 17.375 / 20 = 0.869
Now we're getting there.
I didn't pay attention to the HTHS method. D4741 isn't the typical test, quite rare, so I didn't even think of it.
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Good catch, thanks.
I'm looking for advice on which HPL line to use in my application, since many of the descriptions sound basically the same. I have a 2019 Mazda Miata. The engine has DI, uses 0W20, and I've just installed a supercharger. Spirited daily driving is the primary use, with maybe one track day per summer for fun. I won't be racing or spending a lot of time at the track, but high RPMs will be frequent. The supercharger vendor recommends 0W40, but that might be a safety recommendation for the all the people tracking and competing with the car. Currently I'm using M1 ESP 0W30. I won't put a lot of miles on the car so OCIs will be short since I'll probably just change it every spring.
What HPL would be appropriate? What is the difference between Passenger, Passenger Plus, and Euro? How do the add packs vary? Thanks for any help you can provide!
What HPL would be appropriate? What is the difference between Passenger, Passenger Plus, and Euro? How do the add packs vary? Thanks for any help you can provide!
Euro 5W40 is proven in applications like this (high power density/forced induction/track days/spirited). No reason to run short OCIs, I'm going 2 years on this in one car b/c low mileage and I changed once last year at 8.5K/8 track days/1 autoX and it looked...fine per UOAs mid- and end-of OCI. It's my recommendation.
The Premium Plus lines are PAO-based making them more resilient in colder weather. Given that you're in COLDorado, Premium Plus 0W-40 would be a great option with the best protection from LSPI (not that it would be a concern with any of their other oils) and a pour point of -72°F.
Why that over the Euro 5W40?
Just to maximize LSPI prevention since the Ca content is <1500 ppm. In reality, it's 6 and half dozen. LSPI won't be a concern either way, and both oils will take whatever he can throw at them.
Got it. I think the lspi concern on this forum is unfounded for most engines.
Probably better cold weather performance. That he reason enough for me to use their Premium Plus. Wouldn’t it for u?
Not close to being cold enough here to matter. What is the HTHS of the 0W40?
Thanks for the recommendations! Any reason to go with xW40 vs the xW30? xW40 will bring higher temps and lower horsepower, and I'm not sure in my usage there will be much extra protection over the xW30? And I worry a bit about internal clearances and oil flow when making such a large jump from 0W20 to 0W40. But I don't have expertise to know for sure.
Also, is the Premium Passenger Plus using a good amount of moly and boron?
Also, is the Premium Passenger Plus using a good amount of moly and boron?
So a little less than the 5W which is 4.023.
There is nothing "good" about the amount of "moly and boron" in an oil. There are different types of each, and different ramifications for each depending upon the other characteristics of all the other additives as well as the type and quality of the base oil. IOW: You're kidding yourself if you think you can discern the ability of oil to adequately serve your engines needs based upon the "amount of moly and boron". The amounts (and types) must be properly balanced to provide best results.
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All the HPL products use very high amounts of moly, except their Euro line which uses a high amount of boron instead of moly due to a clash between the euro ad pack and moly.
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