Do any of them drink oil?
High Performance Lubricants No VII series engine oils.
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No. No added oil during an OCI. I get out about as much as I out in. Obviously there was a typo on the original post. Would a Toyota hybrid that burns oil do worse with the HPL Euro NO VII oil?
it depends. There's no way of knowing how the oil consumption will go after switching, but on the whole an A/B euro oil is about 25% worse than a C/API oil for cat life. Doesn't matter one bit of oil consumption is low.
OVERKILL
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How can consumption not matter if catalyst efficiency impact is as a direct result of phosphorous making it onto the catalyst? Clearly, the more phosphorous that enters the exhaust system, the higher the rate of catalyst efficiency degradation.
WHEN OIL CONSUMPTION IS LOW the saps level doesn't matter. And Cx oils are also euro grades with saps levels like api/ilsac
On an engine that doesn't burn much oil, only around 10-20% of catalyst poisoning will be from burned oil, and the rest will be from fuel. So an oil with 50% higher SAPS should only reduce cat life by around 5-10%, and the cat will probably outlast the vehicle anyway.
For an engine that drinks oil, the cat life will be short to begin with and there's a good chance that it won't outlast the vehicle. The high SAPS oil could further shorten its life by ~30%.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Thanks for clarifying, that's not how your statement came across to me, hence the query.
On the C-series oils, phosphorous limits are still higher than the API/ILSAC ones for almost all of them (and there's a lower limit for many of them of 700ppm).
The upper limit for the C-series oils is:
C1: 500ppm
C2: 900ppm
C3: 900ppm
C4: 900ppm
C5: 900ppm
Whereas for API/ILSAC the lower limit is 600ppm and the upper limit is 800ppm.
So in application, while C-series oils are phosphorous-constrained relative to their full-SAPS cousins, the actual amount of phosphorous isn't all that different, and can be considerably higher than their API peers.
If we look at the Mobil Product Guide for example:
M1 EP 0W-20 has 760ppm of Phosphorous while M1 ESP X2 (C5/C6) 0W-20 has 880ppm
M1 ESP X3 0W-40 (C3) has 900ppm of phosphorous, M1 FS 0W-40 (A3/B4) has 930ppm
M1 AFE 0W-30 has 760ppm of Phosphorous, M1 ESP 0W-30 (C3) has 800ppm
We've seen some even lower levels in VOA's of some of the API SP oils (though I take the Blackstone VOA's with a grain of salt):
Attached is a virgin sample of QSFS 5w30 that I am currently running in my 24 Ford Transit 250.
I switched over from Castrol GTX HM, liking the higher viscosity and flashpoint as well as the increased boron and moly compared to the GTX.
The only thing I dont like is the slightly lower TBN.
I switched over from Castrol GTX HM, liking the higher viscosity and flashpoint as well as the increased boron and moly compared to the GTX.
The only thing I dont like is the slightly lower TBN.
Here's a VOA of Costco's Kirkland 0W-20. Wanted a baseline before my 1st UOA.
Patman
Staff member
But isn’t a higher SAPS oil more likely to cause intake valve carbon deposits in direct injected engines?
No downside. I’m on 3rd oci of 5w20 NO VII HPL in daily driver focus. No issues.
Take a deep breath bro, those are all literally Dexron (mostly -III) equivalents, so yes, they were all using the same fluid. Works in almost all PSF applications as well, outside of Honda.
There have been several folks who thought they could “catch” HPL stretching the truth on what applications their products work on, even Subaru CVTs that have about 6 different OEM fluids that Subaru claims are incompatible.
Haven’t heard anything negative back from those folks who were SURE they finally nailed Dave, which means the naysayers didn’t even have rumors of failures to stand on…
Additive supplier did the validation testing. Every blender follows the same practice of being the middleman. It is truly an “industry issue.”
That’s the point… but also, in the years this site has been around, and especially the time I’ve been here, not one blender has been as transparent as HPL, nor as focused on exceeding the expectations of what comprises just a fraction of their overall business (ie the PCMO & HDMOs that are sold to BITOG members vs. HPL’s total customer volume).
If HPL can share the things they do without exposing proprietary info, there’s certainly even more that XOM, RDS, or P66 could share, but they don’t care about every customer like HPL does. They know the minute their next rebate forms hit WM shelves that 98% of people who DIY oil changes are picking up the lowest cost oil regardless of their perceived “past sins”. Therefore, any drop in sales is simply countered by a rebate period rather than actually advancing their customers’ knowledge base & investment in their brand.
JMO, but over four decades of experience with Big Oil has taught me this to be true.
A lower quality base oil will. And if you need to meet the same wear/ oci standard, a higher saps oil allows the use of cheaper base oils. So yes and no is the answer to you question.
I am glad you pulled this up. It is a big factor in my revisiting my thinking on transmission, transaxle fluids.
Toyota WS is famous for being Group III and meh. Their explanation at their own presser in Singapore, upon the release of Toyota Geniune e-Transaxle Fluid TE was underwhelming. Blah, blah, blah Group III, "clingy polymers" etc.
It is High Performance Lubricants "Teal" for me now--check the facts. It works a lot of places because it is good.
Right on man. I just changed my CVT over to HPL last week, from Amsoil. Quite impressed with it. Amsoil had a slight shudder under about 35 degrees F when cold, no more with HPL.
So you changed out some dirty old Amsoil fluid with fresh. Now all of a sudden you are back to 0 miles on the odometer. Running like a Swiss watch.
What would the factory recommended fluid do for you?
Yep. Certainly not 0 miles, more like 149,580. OEM fluid would have been just fine, I’m sure. However, I refuse to buy it because of the cost. Why pay that when I can get Amsoil or HPL for around the same price?
Update on our consumption issue with our 2018 Audi Q7 (3.0):
Switched to HPL Euro to help solve/slow down our oil consumption issue.
As other people stated on BITOG, consumption slowed down drastically as mileage accrued. First 1250, it seemed like it was burning oil like before, this second half of 1250, it has slowed down a lot. Currently 2500 miles in and have little less than half oil level reading. In other words, at this point, last year the oil level warning would have come up by now. So looking at a 50% improvement so far!
Still planning on changing the oil out in another 500 miles and opening the filter to see if i can see any deposits. May do an BG EPR at the same time.
Switched to HPL Euro to help solve/slow down our oil consumption issue.
As other people stated on BITOG, consumption slowed down drastically as mileage accrued. First 1250, it seemed like it was burning oil like before, this second half of 1250, it has slowed down a lot. Currently 2500 miles in and have little less than half oil level reading. In other words, at this point, last year the oil level warning would have come up by now. So looking at a 50% improvement so far!
Still planning on changing the oil out in another 500 miles and opening the filter to see if i can see any deposits. May do an BG EPR at the same time.
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