High Performance Lubricants No VII series engine oils.

[TiGeo]

Many things about GDI and T-GDI engines are overblown out of proportion. And it's even funnier because the people who are overly concerned about LSPI and IVDs either don't own a GDI engine, or theirs doesn't have these issues, especially LSPI. There is actually a very small number of engines that have LSPI issues, and those are small displacement turbo charged GDI engines that were excessively tuned for fuel economy.

100%

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Sure about that?

Unless my source was unsure about his own product, yep. I think the Euro 5w20 may be PAO, but I didn’t discuss those. PCMO surely isn’t.

I certainly could have misheard, but I don’t think so.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I believe this has been discussed at some point before - HPL doesn't do it for any of their oils.

Guess I missed that. So no Noack measurements have been done on any HPL oils? How do we know were it come in at then?

 

[TiGeo]

Guess I missed that. So no Noack measurements have been done on any HPL oils? How do we know were it come in at then?

And I should state - I think I've read that but maybe not sure? Best to just ask Dave then as I could be incorrect.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I believe this has been discussed at some point before - HPL doesn't do it for any of their oils.

HPL does TGA. The data is not publically available as it is proprietary, for obvious reasons.

Ultimately HPL is liable for the products they put out there. Therefore they run TGA on the lubricants they sell ensuring that they meet high standards and perform well. I have yet to see a blender who is as approachable as HPL in discussing the products they sell without stonewalling potential customers or having them deal with a rigid PR department.

I was seriously impressed with HPL's cleaning abilities after seeing @OVERKILL's thread from last night: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/amsoil-eao11-2019-ram-1500-5-7l-11-144km.364312

This is the kind of stuff that you don't get to see in a cheap UOA or on a PDS.

Guess I missed that. So no Noack measurements have been done on any HPL oils? How do we know were it come in at then?

See above: TGA. HPL tests their oils beyond what other blenders do. Their oils are also tested in racing applications, and consequently engine teardowns are performed.

I guess you will have to trust that you're buying a good product from a reputable company, or shop somewhere else. Or maybe ask the big guys why they're not providing NOACK? However, a low advertised NOACK value is not a guarantee for anything, unfortunately.

 

[Brian123]

Unless my source was unsure about his own product, yep. I think the Euro 5w20 may be PAO, but I didn’t discuss those. PCMO surely isn’t.

I certainly could have misheard, but I don’t think so.

Guess I will just have to contact Dave and see what he says!

 

[ZeeOSix]

HPL does TGA. The data is not publically available as it is proprietary, for obvious reasons.

View attachment 136059

Ultimately HPL is liable for the products they put out there. Therefore they run TGA on the lubricants they sell ensuring that they meet high standards and perform well. I have yet to see a blender who is as approachable as HPL in discussing the products they sell without stonewalling potential customers or having them deal with a rigid PR department.

I was seriously impressed with HPL's cleaning abilities after seeing @OVERKILL's thread from last night: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/amsoil-eao11-2019-ram-1500-5-7l-11-144km.364312

This is the kind of stuff that you don't get to see in a cheap UOA or on a PDS.


See above: TGA. HPL tests their oils beyond what other blenders do. Their oils are also tested in racing applications, and consequently engine teardowns are performed.

I guess you will have to trust that you're buying a good product from a reputable company, or shop somewhere else. Or maybe ask the big guys why they're not providing NOACK? However, a low advertised NOACK value is not a guarantee for anything, unfortunately.

How does TGA testing determine the volatility of the product in the conditions of a running engine at high temperatures? And what are the measurement limits of the testing to say the product it too volatile?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

How does TGA testing determine the volatility of the product in the conditions of a running engine at high temperatures? And what are the measurement limits of the testing to say the product it too volatile?

I hope you enjoy science. If you do, this should be a relatively short, pleasant, and informative read:

Thermogravimetric Analysis of Lubricants​

It's nothing too fancy, just an SAE paper on TGA.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284384429_Thermogravimetric_Analysis_of_Lubricants

Click on the link above. Then you can download the PDF by clicking on the link in the right upper hand corner as seen in the screenshot below:

Enjoy!

 

[TiGeo]

I hope you enjoy science. If you do, this should be a relatively short, pleasant, and informative read:

Thermogravimetric Analysis of Lubricants​

It's nothing too fancy, just a SAE paper on TGA.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284384429_Thermogravimetric_Analysis_of_Lubricants
Click on the link above. Then you can download the PDF by clicking on the link in the right upper hand corner as seen in the screenshot below:

View attachment 136060

Enjoy!

Or just realize HPL makes oil for race cars, employs some serious oil industry nerds, and Dave has been more than forthcoming with this group so I'm sure their passenger car stuff is going to be more than adequate for your daily driver

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Or just realize HPL makes oil for race cars, employs some serious oil industry nerds, and Dave has been more than forthcoming with this group so I'm sure their passenger car stuff is going to be more than adequate for your daily driver

I know, right?

He wanted to know the science, so now he's got an opportunity to learn it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I hope you enjoy science. If you do, this should be a relatively short, pleasant, and informative read:

Thermogravimetric Analysis of Lubricants​

It's nothing too fancy, just an SAE paper on TGA.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284384429_Thermogravimetric_Analysis_of_Lubricants

Click on the link above. Then you can download the PDF by clicking on the link in the right upper hand corner as seen in the screenshot below:

View attachment 136060

Enjoy!

Thanks ... that was back in 1983 when this testing was being researched ... a "novel test method".

Is there now a standard, industry recognized test standard using this method to determine the acceptable limits of volatility/oxidation in motor oils?

 

[TiGeo]

Thanks ... that was back in 1983 when this testing was being researched.

Is there now a standard, industry reconginized test standard using this method to determine the limits of volatility/oxidation in motor oils?

Have you just DM'd Dave w/HPL and ask him? I'm sure he more than anyone else commenting here can answer this/give you the DL.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Or just realize HPL makes oil for race cars, employs some serious oil industry nerds, and Dave has been more than forthcoming with this group so I'm sure their passenger car stuff is going to be more than adequate for your daily driver

Of course I'm sure ... but science guys want to know details.

 

[TiGeo]

Of course I'm sure ... but science guys want to know details.

I'm a science guy (a geologist!) but I just get in, start it, and send it.

 

[Astro14]

Thanks ... that was back in 1983 when this testing was being researched ... a "novel test method".

Is there now a standard, industry recognized test standard using this method to determine the acceptable limits of volatility/oxidation in motor oils?

How did NOACK measure oxidation?

 

[ZeeOSix]

If Valvoline, Mobil or Pennzoil said they don't measure Noack, but instead use TGA to determine an engine oil's volatility, wouldn't you want to know how that works, and what the acceptable industry limits were per an established industry standard? Just like API has a limit spec on Noack per ASTM D5800 standards. Just trying to understand if there is some other valid way of doing a volatility measurement that is recognized in the industry.

Just saying the engine didn't use much oil isn't a valid measurement of volatility.

 

[ZeeOSix]

How did NOACK measure oxidation?

Didn't say it did. Seems volatility and oxidation are related. From the research paper. If oil is volatile due to heat, the molecules turn to gas and the oil oxidates and thickens.

 

[TiGeo]

If Valvoline, Mobil or Pennzoil said they don't measure Noack, but instead use TGA to determine an engine oil's volatility, wouldn't you want to know how that works, and what the acceptable industry limits were per an established industry standard? Just like API has a limit spec on Noack per ASTM D5800 standards. Just trying to understand if there is some other valid way of doing a volitility measurement that is recognized in the industry.

You mean PF's stove test/weighing before and after isn't the way to do it?

 

[Astro14]

Thanks ... that was back in 1983 when this testing was being researched ... a "novel test method".

Is there now a standard, industry recognized test standard using this method to determine the acceptable limits of volatility/oxidation in motor oils?

Didn't say it did. Seems volatility and oxidation are related. From the research paper. If oil is volatile due to heat, the molecules turn to gas and the oil oxidates and thickens.

View attachment 136062

Actually, you DID mix volatility and oxidation together. That’s why I was asking.

NOACK is a volatility test, is it not?

Which doesn’t measure oxidation.

 

[OVERKILL]

HPL does TGA. The data is not publically available as it is proprietary, for obvious reasons.

View attachment 136059

Ultimately HPL is liable for the products they put out there. Therefore they run TGA on the lubricants they sell ensuring that they meet high standards and perform well. I have yet to see a blender who is as approachable as HPL in discussing the products they sell without stonewalling potential customers or having them deal with a rigid PR department.

I was seriously impressed with HPL's cleaning abilities after seeing @OVERKILL's thread from last night: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/amsoil-eao11-2019-ram-1500-5-7l-11-144km.364312

This is the kind of stuff that you don't get to see in a cheap UOA or on a PDS.


See above: TGA. HPL tests their oils beyond what other blenders do. Their oils are also tested in racing applications, and consequently engine teardowns are performed.

I guess you will have to trust that you're buying a good product from a reputable company, or shop somewhere else. Or maybe ask the big guys why they're not providing NOACK? However, a low advertised NOACK value is not a guarantee for anything, unfortunately.

They also perform fleet testing, much of which is ongoing, covering millions of miles in several different applications.