High Performance Lubricants No VII series engine oils.

[frankbee3]

This is neat! I remember HPL’s David mentioned that HPL was working on this no-VII series a couple of weeks ago.
I was thinking of sending a question to David Ward about the development, but this thread answers my questions.

I look forward to using this series of oils.

David, what oil do you think would be best for a marine Ford flat tappet engine? I am mostly concerned with camshaft and tappet wear and the 160 degree thermostat that is specified for freshwater use. Do you think the cold engine temperatures would prevent the anti wear additives from being fully activated?

 

[Big_B]

Both the 5w30's are impressive.

 

[I<3oil]

This is not something I've ever felt nor anything I thought I'd ever say, but I feel a little tingle of excitement about these oils.

 

[JakeBlade]

Wow, thinking one of tge 20wt oils would be great for my hybrid.

Curious if there will be NOACK estimates at some point?

My hybird calls for 0W-16 which most oils found on the shelves of discount retailers have 40°C viscosity rating between 35-38 mm²/s.
This 'No VII Series' 5W-20 PCMO is 51.

 

[dkryan]

Well it took a week longer than planned but we have the No VII series of oils put together. They are consistent with the respective PCMO and Euro series.

https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/No-VII-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

Help clear up my confusion, please.

The chart associated with your link; are all of the listed oils “No VII” or just the Euro oils?

And what is the attraction (difference) between your new “No VII” offerings versus what you have formulated and sold up until now, other than the obvious lack of VII?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

My hybird calls for 0W-16 which most oils found on the shelves of discount retailers have 40°C viscosity rating between 35-38 mm²/s.
This 'No VII Series' 5W-20 PCMO is 51.

Ok? Your engine will be better protected.

 

[Ray S]

This whole GDi thing has me concerned about fuel dilution too.

One of the things that interested me in active crankcase vacuuming was removing light components that end up in the oil, as PCV really only works at idle and most products blow by under power. At 40-1 AFR GDI shouldn't dilute much at idle I'd think...

 

[OVERKILL]

Not complaining here, just hoping to be educated.

In your link, there weren't any 0w oils. Is that simply because you haven't gotten around to them yet, or because there is something in VIIs that allow an oil to meet the pumpability tests for the 0w standard--that you can't get, without those VIIs?

You can do 0W-16 and stuff without VII pretty easily but once you get to wider spreads, trying to keep the Winter rating in the 0W-xx ballpark becomes more difficult. If you look at the two 5W-20's, they are very close to the limit for the 5W-xx designation and the VI's are about where you'd expect them to be for an oil based on PAO, AN's and esters, around the 140 mark.

The 5W-30's are interesting, because they have much higher VI's than I'd have expected possible for a monograde. It looks like they are blended using some lighter base and then spiked with something else that has a very high VI to drive the average up. Just a guess there though. But again, you can see how close to the CCS limit we are.

MRV for all of them is phenomenal, which I am going to assume is related to the majority base oil being PAO, so no wax crystal formation to worry about.

 

[OVERKILL]

This is neat! I remember HPL’s David mentioned that HPL was working on this no-VII series a couple of weeks ago.
I was thinking of sending a question to David Ward about the development, but this thread answers my questions.

I look forward to using this series of oils.

David, what oil do you think would be best for a marine Ford flat tappet engine? I am mostly concerned with camshaft and tappet wear and the 160 degree thermostat that is specified for freshwater use. Do you think the cold engine temperatures would prevent the anti wear additives from being fully activated?

Apparently the 160 is just for salt water, if you are running exclusively fresh water, you can bump up to a 180, that's what I did with our 351W, FWIW.

 

[paulri]

OK, when I hear the term "pour point depressants," that suggests to me that you have an oil with a fairly high viscosity, and then you insert additives that allow it to have a 0w rating. But it doesn't work that way? Or once you add them, they make the oil thinner? Or are pour point depressants a thing of the past?

You can do 0W-16 and stuff without VII pretty easily but once you get to wider spreads, trying to keep the Winter rating in the 0W-xx ballpark becomes more difficult. If you look at the two 5W-20's, they are very close to the limit for the 5W-xx designation and the VI's are about where you'd expect them to be for an oil based on PAO, AN's and esters, around the 140 mark.

The 5W-30's are interesting, because they have much higher VI's than I'd have expected possible for a monograde. It looks like they are blended using some lighter base and then spiked with something else that has a very high VI to drive the average up. Just a guess there though. But again, you can see how close to the CCS limit we are.

MRV for all of them is phenomenal, which I am going to assume is related to the majority base oil being PAO, so no wax crystal formation to worry about.

 

[OVERKILL]

OK, when I hear the term "pour point depressants," that suggests to me that you have an oil with a fairly high viscosity, and then you insert additives that allow it to have a 0w rating. But it doesn't work that way? Or once you add them, they make the oil thinner? Or are pour point depressants a thing of the past?

Neither.

PPD's are a necessity in bases that have wax in them. Basically, any Group III or lower base has wax in it and, when you cool that base this wax forms crystals, which dramatically drives up the viscosity and kills the pour point (this is why Group III and lower pour points are awful). PPD's are added to these bases to depress the point at which wax crystal formation occurs, allowing them to achieve Winter grades they otherwise couldn't.

 

[Bailes1992]

Neither.

PPD's are a necessity in bases that have wax in them. Basically, any Group III or lower base has wax in it and, when you cool that base this wax forms crystals, which dramatically drives up the viscosity and kills the pour point (this is why Group III and lower pour points are awful). PPD's are added to these bases to depress the point at which wax crystal formation occurs, allowing them to achieve Winter grades they otherwise couldn't.

What effect do PPD's have on the performance of the oil? Specifically wear and deposits? I'm assuming there is a negative side to them?

 

[OVERKILL]

What effect do PPD's have on the performance of the oil? Specifically wear and deposits? I'm assuming there is a negative side to them?

Like any other additive, yes, there's a possibility for them to produce deposits, though I'm not sure how much of an issue that aspect actually is, I assume pretty insignificant. The more important thing is that PPD's degrade, which is why oils are allowed to slip a Winter grade in service. So your 5W-30 can become a 10W-30, your 0W-40 can become a 5W-40....etc.

Now, that won't be an issue for the vast majority of people in North America, but if you are starting your vehicle in Fort Mac and it's -45C, then it's important.

 

[spasm3]

And what is the attraction (difference) between your new “No VII” offerings versus what you have formulated and sold up until now, other than the obvious lack of VII?

The No VII is the attraction. Nothing to sheer down, probably more fuel dilution resistant.

 

[JHZR2]

My hybird calls for 0W-16 which most oils found on the shelves of discount retailers have 40°C viscosity rating between 35-38 mm²/s.
This 'No VII Series' 5W-20 PCMO is 51.

My hybrid calls for 0w-20, not 16, and something that is more robust is desirable IMO since often you can do a high speed long climb, and then the engine will instantaneously shut off as load drops.

NOACK is a volatility value (% weight loss), not a viscosity measure.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Being straight group IV and V base oil, I would imagine they're all in the 4-7% range for Noack.

 

[spasm3]

My hybird calls for 0W-16 which most oils found on the shelves of discount retailers have 40°C viscosity rating between 35-38 mm²/s.
This 'No VII Series' 5W-20 PCMO is 51.

Wow, thinking one of tge 20wt oils would be great for my hybrid.

Curious if there will be NOACK estimates at some point?

I do have to wonder if these oils would be the best for a hybrid. The no VII oils are a tad thicker when cold. Depending on climate, i'm thinking all the stop starts of a hybrid, that a true multigrade oil with some VII( like the HPL premium) might be better. Unless you are in a warm climate.

 

[Gentleman farmer]

Now, that won't be an issue for the vast majority of people in North America, but if you are starting your vehicle in Fort Mac and it's -45C, then it's important.

So, for the vast majority of people in north america, and likely where near sub zero temp is nearly inexistant, the "no vii euro 10w-30" will be the dog's B. Almost an universal oil.
And then, blend that with a low/mid saps "euro" additive and some additional wizardry for all those dreadful "euro" engines where lower saps level are mandatory ... A low/mid saps no vii 10w-30, dang it, it has got to stop.

 

[OVERKILL]

So, for the vast majority of people in north america, and likely where near sub zero temp is nearly inexistant, the "no vii euro 10w-30" will be the dog's B. Almost an universal oil.
And then, blend that with a low/mid saps "euro" additive and some additional wizardry for all those dreadful "euro" engines where lower saps level are mandatory ... A low/mid saps no vii 10w-30, dang it, it has got to stop.

I personally don't see any advantage the 10W-30 would have over the 5W-30 unless the Noack is a lot lower. Normally, the inclination for people to go 10W-30 is based on the perception of it having less VII, but in this case, neither have VII.

 

[I<3oil]

Well it took a week longer than planned but we have the No VII series of oils put together. They are consistent with the respective PCMO and Euro series.

https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/No-VII-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

Would you be able to furnish additive numbers for Euro/PCMO? 5W-20 and 5W-30?