The filter looks to be Wix 57062 which is what shows to be correct on the Wix website for this engine? Cage free as shown and how the OEM unit is?
He's Dead Jim! Engine Warranty Denied! Help!
- Thread starter porschepilot
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Also oil was only around 6k miles old.
The oil light comes on well before disaster strikes. The owner knows if the light came on or not. This filter was being used awhile so the oil was flowing. If not flowing, even though it surely was and there is no reason to see it wasn't, the bypass valve takes care of that. I think it was a weak part. Truck diesel made out of aluminum? Hope goes well, it should. This is why to use OE during warranty especially.
I’m confused...
So they aren’t denying it? They just have to ask for approval from MB? If it does in fact get denied and blamed on the filter then WIX should get involved. If it wasn’t you then I would probably put the shop that did it on notice now.
IMO that filter looks horrible for 6K miles, I’d avoid those in the future. The Sprinter Forums seem to say only OE/OEM or Hengst.
So they aren’t denying it? They just have to ask for approval from MB? If it does in fact get denied and blamed on the filter then WIX should get involved. If it wasn’t you then I would probably put the shop that did it on notice now.
IMO that filter looks horrible for 6K miles, I’d avoid those in the future. The Sprinter Forums seem to say only OE/OEM or Hengst.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I’m confused...
So they aren’t denying it? They just have to ask for approval from MB? If it does in fact get denied and blamed on the filter then WIX should get involved. If it wasn’t you then I would probably put the shop that did it on notice now.
IMO that filter looks horrible for 6K miles, I’d avoid those in the future. The Sprinter Forums seem to say only OE/OEM or Hengst.
They said the filter was the cause but they were not able to demonstrate how. They told me that I would need to talk to MBZ.
So do you think that the filter did cause the failure? If so how? If it did then I'll move on and pay for a used engine for about 12k installed lol I just want to make sure what the fact is.
I’m confused...
So they aren’t denying it? They just have to ask for approval from MB? If it does in fact get denied and blamed on the filter then WIX should get involved. If it wasn’t you then I would probably put the shop that did it on notice now.
IMO that filter looks horrible for 6K miles, I’d avoid those in the future. The Sprinter Forums seem to say only OE/OEM or Hengst.
They said the filter was the cause but they were not able to demonstrate how. They told me that I would need to talk to MBZ.
So do you think that the filter did cause the failure? If so how? If it did then I'll move on and pay for a used engine for about 12k installed lol I just want to make sure what the fact is.
If the Wix caused it you need to get Mann & Hummel involved. They should pay for the damage-but even if they won't pay, you could be saving the OTHER Sprinter owners out there a similar fate. This (& massive premature rust) is the reason my company ditched the Sprinters (Dodge/Daimler built)-they are ridiculously expensive to repair & just not tough enough. We had a transmission replaced that was just over TEN GRAND!!
They don't know the cause, so they put the blame on the twisted and smashed filter. Who knows when that damage actually happened.
Will need to look further if they really want to try and find the cause. Probably not worth the effort though.
They'll have to replace the engine.
Will need to look further if they really want to try and find the cause. Probably not worth the effort though.
They'll have to replace the engine.
Originally Posted By: porschepilot
They said the filter was the cause but they were not able to demonstrate how. They told me that I would need to talk to MBZ.
Has anyone proved if the right or wrong filter was used?
If the right filter was used and MBZ is claiming it caused the engine failure then they need to say how it caused the failure, ie, how did the filter cause inadequate oil flow. If they think the cause of the engine failure is becsuse of wavy pleats then they are grasping for any excuse to deny warranty.
If the right WIX filter number was used, and if it can be proved that the filter was the cause of engine failure then MBZ is going to say WIX is responsible. If the wrong filter was installed by a shop, then they would be responsible if it could actually be proven that the wrong filter caused the failure.
They said the filter was the cause but they were not able to demonstrate how. They told me that I would need to talk to MBZ.
Has anyone proved if the right or wrong filter was used?
If the right filter was used and MBZ is claiming it caused the engine failure then they need to say how it caused the failure, ie, how did the filter cause inadequate oil flow. If they think the cause of the engine failure is becsuse of wavy pleats then they are grasping for any excuse to deny warranty.
If the right WIX filter number was used, and if it can be proved that the filter was the cause of engine failure then MBZ is going to say WIX is responsible. If the wrong filter was installed by a shop, then they would be responsible if it could actually be proven that the wrong filter caused the failure.
I talked to Wix and a field Rep is going to pickup the filter and take to North Carolina to their lab. Let's see how that goes?
Originally Posted By: porschepilot
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I’m confused...
So they aren’t denying it? They just have to ask for approval from MB? If it does in fact get denied and blamed on the filter then WIX should get involved. If it wasn’t you then I would probably put the shop that did it on notice now.
IMO that filter looks horrible for 6K miles, I’d avoid those in the future. The Sprinter Forums seem to say only OE/OEM or Hengst.
They said the filter was the cause but they were not able to demonstrate how. They told me that I would need to talk to MBZ.
So do you think that the filter did cause the failure? If so how? If it did then I’ll move on and pay for a used engine for about 12k installed lol I just want to make sure what the fact is.
I’m not really comfortable with the level of detail here, It would be helpful in giving you advice to know who changed the oil, how the filter was sourced and if the part number can be verified.
That said, based on what you have said this dealer is flinging poo and seeing where it sticks. I’d quit being nice and start tying to hang them with their own words. As someone said back on page 2 or so, get this stuff in writing, particularly the part about they can’t demonstrate how the filter caused the failure. In fact I’d probably sit down and write them a letter, certified, return receipt requested that says basically “This will confirm our conversation on XXXX at XXXX where upon XXXX (rank/positon) stated that “_______________________” I’d make sure “unable to demonstrate how” was in there (assuming they said that). I would then hand it to someone at the post office and make sure I had a receipt with a time stamp.
Then I’d go get the denial in writing on a company document. Once I had that my next 4 calls would be the filter manufacturer, mbz, the bbb and the FTC.
There is no way I would pay them for an engine (assuming I didn’t put the wrong filter in it) I’d let it sit there and turn into dirt before I did that.
EDIT: AH, Filter manufacturer involved... now get MB corporate on the horn and let the finger pointing begin...
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I’m confused...
So they aren’t denying it? They just have to ask for approval from MB? If it does in fact get denied and blamed on the filter then WIX should get involved. If it wasn’t you then I would probably put the shop that did it on notice now.
IMO that filter looks horrible for 6K miles, I’d avoid those in the future. The Sprinter Forums seem to say only OE/OEM or Hengst.
They said the filter was the cause but they were not able to demonstrate how. They told me that I would need to talk to MBZ.
So do you think that the filter did cause the failure? If so how? If it did then I’ll move on and pay for a used engine for about 12k installed lol I just want to make sure what the fact is.
I’m not really comfortable with the level of detail here, It would be helpful in giving you advice to know who changed the oil, how the filter was sourced and if the part number can be verified.
That said, based on what you have said this dealer is flinging poo and seeing where it sticks. I’d quit being nice and start tying to hang them with their own words. As someone said back on page 2 or so, get this stuff in writing, particularly the part about they can’t demonstrate how the filter caused the failure. In fact I’d probably sit down and write them a letter, certified, return receipt requested that says basically “This will confirm our conversation on XXXX at XXXX where upon XXXX (rank/positon) stated that “_______________________” I’d make sure “unable to demonstrate how” was in there (assuming they said that). I would then hand it to someone at the post office and make sure I had a receipt with a time stamp.
Then I’d go get the denial in writing on a company document. Once I had that my next 4 calls would be the filter manufacturer, mbz, the bbb and the FTC.
There is no way I would pay them for an engine (assuming I didn’t put the wrong filter in it) I’d let it sit there and turn into dirt before I did that.
EDIT: AH, Filter manufacturer involved... now get MB corporate on the horn and let the finger pointing begin...
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The low oil light comes on when the pressure drops. If it didn't that's strong proof it wasn't oil pressure. It's interesting that Wix is owned by Mann the OE supplier shown. Not going to be easy for MB to say the Wix made by Mann is wrong.
Dealer doesn't want to do warranty work, because it doesn't pay as well. That's my take.
I Mercedes independent shop did the change.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: porschepilot
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I’m confused...
So they aren’t denying it? They just have to ask for approval from MB? If it does in fact get denied and blamed on the filter then WIX should get involved. If it wasn’t you then I would probably put the shop that did it on notice now.
IMO that filter looks horrible for 6K miles, I’d avoid those in the future. The Sprinter Forums seem to say only OE/OEM or Hengst.
They said the filter was the cause but they were not able to demonstrate how. They told me that I would need to talk to MBZ.
So do you think that the filter did cause the failure? If so how? If it did then I’ll move on and pay for a used engine for about 12k installed lol I just want to make sure what the fact is.
I’m not really comfortable with the level of detail here, It would be helpful in giving you advice to know who changed the oil, how the filter was sourced and if the part number can be verified.
That said, based on what you have said this dealer is flinging poo and seeing where it sticks. I’d quit being nice and start tying to hang them with their own words. As someone said back on page 2 or so, get this stuff in writing, particularly the part about they can’t demonstrate how the filter caused the failure. In fact I’d probably sit down and write them a letter, certified, return receipt requested that says basically “This will confirm our conversation on XXXX at XXXX where upon XXXX (rank/positon) stated that “_______________________” I’d make sure “unable to demonstrate how” was in there (assuming they said that). I would then hand it to someone at the post office and make sure I had a receipt with a time stamp.
Then I’d go get the denial in writing on a company document. Once I had that my next 4 calls would be the filter manufacturer, mbz, the bbb and the FTC.
There is no way I would pay them for an engine (assuming I didn’t put the wrong filter in it) I’d let it sit there and turn into dirt before I did that.
EDIT: AH, Filter manufacturer involved... now get MB corporate on the horn and let the finger pointing begin...
A Mercedes independent shop did the service. No part number on the filter but the Wix rep has seen the filter and recognized it. It will be sent to the lab next week for a full report. He also told me Wix is owned by MANN which is the OEM supplier to MBZ.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: porschepilot
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I’m confused...
So they aren’t denying it? They just have to ask for approval from MB? If it does in fact get denied and blamed on the filter then WIX should get involved. If it wasn’t you then I would probably put the shop that did it on notice now.
IMO that filter looks horrible for 6K miles, I’d avoid those in the future. The Sprinter Forums seem to say only OE/OEM or Hengst.
They said the filter was the cause but they were not able to demonstrate how. They told me that I would need to talk to MBZ.
So do you think that the filter did cause the failure? If so how? If it did then I’ll move on and pay for a used engine for about 12k installed lol I just want to make sure what the fact is.
I’m not really comfortable with the level of detail here, It would be helpful in giving you advice to know who changed the oil, how the filter was sourced and if the part number can be verified.
That said, based on what you have said this dealer is flinging poo and seeing where it sticks. I’d quit being nice and start tying to hang them with their own words. As someone said back on page 2 or so, get this stuff in writing, particularly the part about they can’t demonstrate how the filter caused the failure. In fact I’d probably sit down and write them a letter, certified, return receipt requested that says basically “This will confirm our conversation on XXXX at XXXX where upon XXXX (rank/positon) stated that “_______________________” I’d make sure “unable to demonstrate how” was in there (assuming they said that). I would then hand it to someone at the post office and make sure I had a receipt with a time stamp.
Then I’d go get the denial in writing on a company document. Once I had that my next 4 calls would be the filter manufacturer, mbz, the bbb and the FTC.
There is no way I would pay them for an engine (assuming I didn’t put the wrong filter in it) I’d let it sit there and turn into dirt before I did that.
EDIT: AH, Filter manufacturer involved... now get MB corporate on the horn and let the finger pointing begin...
A Mercedes independent shop did the service. No part number on the filter but the Wix rep has seen the filter and recognized it. It will be sent to the lab next week for a full report. He also told me Wix is owned by MANN which is the OEM supplier to MBZ.
Originally Posted By: porschepilot
A Mercedes independent shop did the service. No part number on the filter but the Wix rep has seen the filter and recognized it. It will be sent to the lab next week for a full report. He also told me Wix is owned by MANN which is the OEM supplier to MBZ.
Good deal then. Hopefully this will get worked out quickly.
This is in fact precisely the type of thing that MM is designed to protect against. You’re learning the hoops that you might have to jump through if you give them an excuse though.
If you have not already, you might let the independent know what is going on. If it comes down to it a “we use a lot of those and never have an issue with them” from a respected independent in your corner will help.
A Mercedes independent shop did the service. No part number on the filter but the Wix rep has seen the filter and recognized it. It will be sent to the lab next week for a full report. He also told me Wix is owned by MANN which is the OEM supplier to MBZ.
Good deal then. Hopefully this will get worked out quickly.
This is in fact precisely the type of thing that MM is designed to protect against. You’re learning the hoops that you might have to jump through if you give them an excuse though.
If you have not already, you might let the independent know what is going on. If it comes down to it a “we use a lot of those and never have an issue with them” from a respected independent in your corner will help.
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Hummmm. Porschepilot: IMHO, the use of an aftermarket filter + INDY service = arbitration first (see yr warranty requirements), followed almost certainly by litigation (not a trial, but at a minimum the filing a pleading at which point MB may make a settlement offer). However, the use of an aftermarket filter -- and particularly that filter of (how shall I say this?) "questionable" origin -- absolutely locks you into requiring a lawyer to sort this out. If it turns out the filter used was not correct for whatever reason, your INDY will become the sole defendant. In the meantime, bag that filter and do not let it out of your sight.
Originally Posted By: Hounds
Hummmm. Porschepilot: IMHO, the use of an aftermarket filter + INDY service = arbitration first (see yr warranty requirements), followed almost certainly by litigation (not a trial, but at a minimum the filing a pleading at which point MB may make a settlement offer). However, the use of an aftermarket filter -- and particularly that filter of (how shall I say this?) "questionable" origin -- absolutely locks you into requiring a lawyer to sort this out. If it turns out the filter used was not correct for whatever reason, your INDY will become the sole defendant. In the meantime, bag that filter and do not let it out of your sight.
Too late-the OP has already sent it to Wix/Mann & Hummel...
Hummmm. Porschepilot: IMHO, the use of an aftermarket filter + INDY service = arbitration first (see yr warranty requirements), followed almost certainly by litigation (not a trial, but at a minimum the filing a pleading at which point MB may make a settlement offer). However, the use of an aftermarket filter -- and particularly that filter of (how shall I say this?) "questionable" origin -- absolutely locks you into requiring a lawyer to sort this out. If it turns out the filter used was not correct for whatever reason, your INDY will become the sole defendant. In the meantime, bag that filter and do not let it out of your sight.
Too late-the OP has already sent it to Wix/Mann & Hummel...
I have the filter and Wix will grab it on Tuesday. In the mean time the dealer is installing a new engine complete and doing a few other bonus work. Because of the situation, the Service Director is REALLY helping with the cost guys! In truth for some reason that filter was sucked inwards and compressed which seems to have starved the bottom end of oil? It threw 2 rods. I also may have been an installer error? The nice thing is the engine will have a full warranty for 3 years 36k miles. Warranty engine would only have gone till October.
Let see what Wix lab shows us for fun?
Going with a lawyer and all that [censored] will be $$$ plus that filter it seems could have been the culprit?
Let see what Wix lab shows us for fun?
Going with a lawyer and all that [censored] will be $$$ plus that filter it seems could have been the culprit?
Was the oil level checked often before the engine failed? Was it using any oil?
Also I would contact MB directly and open a case file with them. That way you can circumvent the dealer's bull jive. The dealer makes more when they're charging you versus being reimbursed by the manufacturer. Call 1-800-Mercedes or whatever the number is.
Also I would contact MB directly and open a case file with them. That way you can circumvent the dealer's bull jive. The dealer makes more when they're charging you versus being reimbursed by the manufacturer. Call 1-800-Mercedes or whatever the number is.
Originally Posted By: ttvr4
Time to lawyer up. I have a friend who recently returned his WRX back to Subaru under the lemon law (not that your Sprinter is lemon, but it might be). He retained a consumer lawyer specializing in lemon laws. Subaru ended up settling and cutting him a check to buy back his Subaru (pro rating the miles he put on). In addition, Subaru also paid for his attorney fees. If I was in your position, I would at least sit down with a consumer lawyer and discuss your case. Good luck!
-ttvr4
Who is the attorney? Maybe send the OP his/her contact info since not all lawyers are good ones.
Time to lawyer up. I have a friend who recently returned his WRX back to Subaru under the lemon law (not that your Sprinter is lemon, but it might be). He retained a consumer lawyer specializing in lemon laws. Subaru ended up settling and cutting him a check to buy back his Subaru (pro rating the miles he put on). In addition, Subaru also paid for his attorney fees. If I was in your position, I would at least sit down with a consumer lawyer and discuss your case. Good luck!
-ttvr4
Who is the attorney? Maybe send the OP his/her contact info since not all lawyers are good ones.
Op, it sounds like you are being too nice! You have an engine that failed at a low mileage, while under warranty!
You can let MB and Wix battle out who is paying, but you should in no way shape or form be paying for this engine!
You can let MB and Wix battle out who is paying, but you should in no way shape or form be paying for this engine!
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