Used car engine warranty denied due to lack of paperwork (Canadian case)

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I wonder if the dealer checked any fluids, especially the oil before putting the car on the lot? Probably not.

Whatever the salesman said has to be written. If he said the warranty was still viable but it wasn’t written on the contract then the buyer might have a hill to climb.

Still, a bunch of shenanigans on the dealership side.
 

ls973800

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I believe the dealer that sold him the vehicle was not an Infinity or Nissan dealer. The dealer that did sell the car could claim rightfully that the car had warranty and that being the remaining Infinity factory warranty. Factory remaining warranty on just about any vehicle follows the vehicle and not just the first owner. That does not in my opinion make the selling dealer liable for any work refused under warranty since it is a factory warranty and not one issued by the selling dealer.

I also now believe this was probable a leased vehicle with little or no maintenance done while it was leased. What the selling dealer and or new owner did is not reported.
 

Jackson_Slugger

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No, it's not.

There's not a single receipt for "maintenance" on my Touareg in the last 55,000 miles. And yet, it has seen 25 gallons of oil, 11 oil filters, two transmission filters,10 gallons of ATF, 2 gallons of gear oil, and 3 each air, fuel, and cabin filters.

If I have an OEM warranty I'm keeping all receipts. Plus, you can go back to a Jiffy Lube or VIOC and get a print out of services if need be. They keep all that data...

How many people hit jiffy lube and trash the receipt. If a dealer wants to deny your warranty they will. And they have that power, unfortunately, through dishonestly, obstruction, or a combination thereof.

A dealer could just as easily say invoices and receipts are fabricated if they don't want to do the work. And you have no recourse.

No, it's not that simple. They cannot just deny a warranty claim to cover an OEM defect, and would need to justify it under oath if it went to court. They can try but if you've adequately maintained the vehicle the onus is on the dealership to prove the owner was maleficent and didn't adequately maintain the vehicle. In many cases where sludging and other issues arise it would be easy for a dealer to deny a claim as I've seen people go 20-40K before changing the oil (though they might have topped off). But if an engine is clean and has newer filters present they would have to explain in a court of how the engine failed and if you've done regular maintenance. This will be apparent and if you lawyer-up the dealership knows they will probably lose and be on the hook for more than an engine replacement. I have seen warranty claims denied for things like not changing a timing belt or because no one bothered to change the oil, but if you dot your "i's" and follow OEM service schedules you'll be okay.

I do get annoyed here when I see people playing lawyer with others' warranties and you should use what the OEM spec's at least while under warranty. But at the same time, there isn't much sympathy for auto dealerships nor warranty companies in court. In any case if an engine is grenading due to design flaws there is almost certainly a track record of such failures in the industry and this can be easily found and most likely there are TB's associated with them as well. Most of all, dealerships get paid by the OEM to replace engines and stuff, so they have no vested interest in frivolously denying legitimate claims...
 

Jackson_Slugger

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...

And my brother had a Camry V6 (of the sludging era) sludge up on him and he changed the oil regularly at a well known local service center. That was before the sludging issue became well known. The service center spotted the sludging problem and advised him to trade the car in immediately. As I recall that was due to a design problem which involved oil hanging up in the heads.

Toyota was aware of the issue, it was that that vintage of the V6 (the mid-90's-to-2000 ugly doorstop Camry vintage) was improperly cooled and formed hot spots in the engine that sludged and coked the oil. Using synthetic seemed to alleviate the issue but conventional on Toyotas extended maintenance "normal" schedule resulted in disaster in most engines. To Toyota's credit they got out ahead and did a stealth recall and certainly weren't fighting you in court for fear the myth of Toyota omnipotence might be broken. In fact it seems that most dealerships freely offered to replace the engine at the slightest sign of blue smoke or power/mileage loss...
 
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I've only owned 1 car that had a manufacturer's warranty. For peace of mind, I had the dealer do all the services until warranty expiration. I was either a smart or stupid 18 year old. 🤷‍♂️
Absolutely nothing wrong with that as I got my ride from them over 8 yrs ago and had 95% of the service done there due to the extended warranty and wanted 'proof' of having had all of that done. What few things I did have done at other places was documented too. I still choose to have oil changes, etc. done at the dealership even though the warrant period is over as they are close to home, don't cost any more than other places for the same thing, have always been quite open/honest and it just works for my situation. I know when they recommend things be done at Nissan 'intervals' or give me a price quote it's due to OEM parts that will cost more, but that quality is what I trust more than most aftermarket.
 
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Canadians are also Americans. As are Mexicans, Bolivians, Peruvians, Brazilians, and about 30 other countries....

...and you of course always use the term "Resident of the United States of America". BTW most Canadians don't like being called American.
 
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Toyota was aware of the issue, it was that that vintage of the V6 (the mid-90's-to-2000 ugly doorstop Camry vintage) was improperly cooled and formed hot spots in the engine that sludged and coked the oil. Using synthetic seemed to alleviate the issue but conventional on Toyotas extended maintenance "normal" schedule resulted in disaster in most engines. To Toyota's credit they got out ahead and did a stealth recall and certainly weren't fighting you in court for fear the myth of Toyota omnipotence might be broken. In fact it seems that most dealerships freely offered to replace the engine at the slightest sign of blue smoke or power/mileage loss...
What you say is correct. But timing is everything. My brother's sludging engine occurred very early in that story when the problem wasn't well known or acknowledged by Toyota. He had a Camry of the 1991 - 96 series. Don't know which year.

That sludging could have occurred as early as 1999 (we moved that year and I remember the car at our new house) and not later than 2001.

I had a 2000 Solara with the same or a very similar engine. I bought mine new and it was a couple of years before Toyota acknowledged that its V6 engine was a sludger. At that point they offered an extended warranty on that engine in Toyota and Lexus products.

I used synthetic oil and changed it frequently at the Toyota dealer so there could be no debate about the maintenance if it ever sludged. I never had any problem with mine.
 
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Buying oil and filters online at least there would be a receipt in the old email if you never erase them or never keep better records.
 
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If I have an OEM warranty I'm keeping all receipts. Plus, you can go back to a Jiffy Lube or VIOC and get a print out of services if need be. They keep all that data...



No, it's not that simple. They cannot just deny a warranty claim to cover an OEM defect, and would need to justify it under oath if it went to court. They can try but if you've adequately maintained the vehicle the onus is on the dealership to prove the owner was maleficent and didn't adequately maintain the vehicle. In many cases where sludging and other issues arise it would be easy for a dealer to deny a claim as I've seen people go 20-40K before changing the oil (though they might have topped off). But if an engine is clean and has newer filters present they would have to explain in a court of how the engine failed and if you've done regular maintenance. This will be apparent and if you lawyer-up the dealership knows they will probably lose and be on the hook for more than an engine replacement. I have seen warranty claims denied for things like not changing a timing belt or because no one bothered to change the oil, but if you dot your "i's" and follow OEM service schedules you'll be okay.

I do get annoyed here when I see people playing lawyer with others' warranties and you should use what the OEM spec's at least while under warranty. But at the same time, there isn't much sympathy for auto dealerships nor warranty companies in court. In any case if an engine is grenading due to design flaws there is almost certainly a track record of such failures in the industry and this can be easily found and most likely there are TB's associated with them as well. Most of all, dealerships get paid by the OEM to replace engines and stuff, so they have no vested interest in frivolously denying legitimate claims...
Well that's true but how many thousands of dollars do you plan on spending on an attorney?
 
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Always keep receipts.....................

Buying used vehicles is always a crap shoot. I buy brand new or so old I know I'm on my own. No one takes care of anything these days.
 
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We may have no recourse but I can sure as hell smear them on Social Media and I'm really good at that when I'm mad plus I'm relentless. And of course, I'd never buy another vehicle from them.
Be sure to slam the wrong business too. That’s usually how that works. Dealership I was at got slammed for a guys extended warranty declining cam phasers due to the truck being lifted. Wrote all kinds of nasty dealer rater and google reviews. He bought the truck and warranty somewhere else, performed the maintenance himself and the extended warranty company sent out an inspector. Somehow still our fault 🤷‍♂️

Don’t get me started on the DIY guys who want the module they replaced themselves programmed. Then start passing out blame when it doesn’t fix whatever problem they replaced a module for.
 
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I found this interesting even though it is from Canada. This attorney says it can happen in the USA for the same reasons.

Owner purchased a used 2019 Infinity from a dealer which came with the factory remaining warranty. 6 months and 20000 km later the engine developed a knock and needed replacing. Infinity Dealer denies warranty because the new owner could not provide any paperwork or previous owner maintenance paperwork.

I am not sure if the car was purchased from an Infinity dealership or as a CPO, or what oil changes took place when the car was at the used car lot or by the new owner. It had 42000 km when purchased used.

Used car engine warranty denied
As far as I know it was purchased from a regular used car dealer. The purchaser was not "experienced" enough to investigate if all the paperwork could be had and assumed that the warranty would apply without proof. Even with purchase receipts one MUST prove that what was bought went into the car which is pretty hard to do for a DIY. Fair enough IMO.
 
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I didn't catch it in the video, but I'd bet this is in regards to a VQ35DD engine in an Infinity QX60. I've read of probably two dozen instances now where these direct injected VQ35DD's get sludged up beyond repair in as little as 40K miles. It's usually this same exact scenario. The second owned buys it off lease, etc and gets burned. Nissan recommends 5000 mile OCI's on the 2017-2021 versions, yet extended it to 10K miles for 2022 and it's the same exact engine. They recommend 0w20.

I change the oil every 3500mi on our 2019 Pathfinder for this reason and the fact the oil looks terrible at 3500mi. The port injected VQ35DE's I've owned did not exhibit this behavior.

A "new" VQ35DD was around $12K last I checked.
No it was a Hyundai Santa Fe if memory serves, the owner went to the news channel for help, but was told he was SOL.
 

JTK

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No it was a Hyundai Santa Fe if memory serves, the owner went to the news channel for help, but was told he was SOL.
I was just taking a guess at a QX60 given the OP stated this was in regards to a 2019 Infinity product.

I had a similar experience when purchasing my ex-rental 2019 Pathfinder from a local mega dealership back in 2019 when it had ~25K miles on it. There were only 2 oil changes on the carfax. One at ~12K miles and another done by the dealership just before I purchased the vehicle.

During their usual passive aggressive extended warranty sales pitch I asked them if they'd guarantee in writing that they'll cover engine issues regardless of the lack of oil change records? They squirmed and I don't recall what their angle was, but they wouldn't give me anything in writing. It was basically 'Lets get you wrapped up and on the road' (w/out the $3000+ aftermarket extended warranty package).

I changed the oil/filter again the next day and have done so every ~3500 miles because of how quickly this particular engine makes the oil look awful. Currently at ~64K miles on it and I don't bother with receipts at this point other than what I document online through the CarFax app.
 
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ls973800

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No it was a Hyundai Santa Fe if memory serves, the owner went to the news channel for help, but was told he was SOL.

Incorrect for this instance. At 1:45 in the video posted it is stated he had purchased a 2019 Infinity QX60. Everything else in the video also referred to Infinity/Nissan denying the repair under factory warranty which was still remaining on the vehicle for powertrain


I was just taking a guess at a QX60 given the OP stated this was in regards to a 2019 Infinity product.

I had a similar experience when purchasing my ex-rental 2019 Pathfinder from a local mega dealership back in 2019 when it had ~25K miles on it. There were only 2 oil changes on the carfax. One at ~12K miles and another done by the dealership just before I purchased the vehicle.

During their usual passive aggressive extended warranty sales pitch I asked them if they'd guarantee in writing that they'll cover engine issues regardless of the lack of oil change records? They squirmed and I don't recall what their angle was, but they wouldn't give me anything in writing. It was basically 'Lets get you wrapped up and on the road' (w/out the $3000+ aftermarket extended warranty package).

I changed the oil/filter again the next day and have done so every ~3500 miles because of how quickly this particular engine makes the oil look awful. Currently at ~64K miles on it and I don't bother with receipts at this point other than what I document online through the CarFax app.

Correct, it was a QX60
 
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Incorrect for this instance. At 1:45 in the video posted it is stated he had purchased a 2019 Infinity QX60. Everything else in the video also referred to Infinity/Nissan denying the repair under factory warranty which was still remaining on the vehicle for powertrain




Correct, it was a QX60
My bad! Shouldn't rely on a fading memory!!!😉
 
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1. I always keep the receipts of oil and filters I buy or receipts of any service I have performed. Plenty of room in the glove box.
None of this matters much any more though, both my vehicles are out of warranty.
2. I think a good reference name for those of us here in the USA is "Statians" to deliniate us from Canadians, Mexicans, Guatemalans, Brazilians, etc, who are all also Americans.
 
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