HTHS vis info is usually provided on the Product Data Sheets (PDS) that is on the oil companies website.
Here is a tough one that's under heavy debate
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
HTHS vis info is usually provided on the Product Data Sheets (PDS) that is on the oil companies website.
TYPICAL PROPERTIES 5w-50 Scheaffer's Supreme 9000
SAE Grade 5W-50
Viscosity @ 40°C, Cst (ASTM D-445) 146.87
Specific Gravity (ASTM D-1298) 0.85
Viscosity @ 100°C, Cst (ASTM D-445) 20.24
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 158
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity 302°F/150°C,cP (ASTM D-4683) 5.08
Cold Cranking Viscosity (ASTM D-5293) @-30°C, cP 6,005
Mini Rotary Viscosity TP-1 @ -35°, cP (ASTM D-4683) 25,000
Flash Point °F/°C (ASTM D-92) 440°/226.67°
Stable Pour Point °F/°C (FTM 7916 Method 203)
Total Base Number (ASTM D-2896) 7.1
Sulfated Ash Content % wt (ASTM D-874) 1.1
Shear Stability (ASTM D-3945 Procedure A) % Viscosity Loss 14%
Copper Strip Corrosion Test (ASTM D-130) 1a
NOACK Volatility %Evaporation Loss (ASTM D-5800) 8.92%
Scheaffer's Supreme 5w-50
HTHS vis info is usually provided on the Product Data Sheets (PDS) that is on the oil companies website.
TYPICAL PROPERTIES 5w-50 Scheaffer's Supreme 9000
SAE Grade 5W-50
Viscosity @ 40°C, Cst (ASTM D-445) 146.87
Specific Gravity (ASTM D-1298) 0.85
Viscosity @ 100°C, Cst (ASTM D-445) 20.24
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 158
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity 302°F/150°C,cP (ASTM D-4683) 5.08
Cold Cranking Viscosity (ASTM D-5293) @-30°C, cP 6,005
Mini Rotary Viscosity TP-1 @ -35°, cP (ASTM D-4683) 25,000
Flash Point °F/°C (ASTM D-92) 440°/226.67°
Stable Pour Point °F/°C (FTM 7916 Method 203)
Total Base Number (ASTM D-2896) 7.1
Sulfated Ash Content % wt (ASTM D-874) 1.1
Shear Stability (ASTM D-3945 Procedure A) % Viscosity Loss 14%
Copper Strip Corrosion Test (ASTM D-130) 1a
NOACK Volatility %Evaporation Loss (ASTM D-5800) 8.92%
Scheaffer's Supreme 5w-50
This would be a great oil for your application.
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Dominator® Synthetic 15W-50 Racing Oil (RD50)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
17.5
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
119.6
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
162
CCS Viscosity (°C), cP (ASTM D-5293)
6695 (-20)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)
-36 (-33)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
234 (453)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
248 (478)
Four Ball Wear Test
(ASTM D-4172: 60 kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr), Scar, mm
0.47
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800)
8.0
Shear Stability Kurt Orbahn (ASTM D-6278),
% viscosity change 90 cycles.
6.3
High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity,
150ºC, 1.4x106s-1, cP (ASTM D-5481)
5.4
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
Dominator® Synthetic 15W-50 Racing Oil (RD50)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
17.5
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
119.6
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
162
CCS Viscosity (°C), cP (ASTM D-5293)
6695 (-20)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-97)
-36 (-33)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
234 (453)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D-92)
248 (478)
Four Ball Wear Test
(ASTM D-4172: 60 kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr), Scar, mm
0.47
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800)
8.0
Shear Stability Kurt Orbahn (ASTM D-6278),
% viscosity change 90 cycles.
6.3
High-Temperature/High-Shear Viscosity,
150ºC, 1.4x106s-1, cP (ASTM D-5481)
5.4
I can't find the PDS for Castrol TWS 10w-60, but just googling around it looks like it has a HTHS @ 5.4cP.
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Yeah, I know Castrol doesn't always provide the HTHS vis spec',
but 5.4 cP sounds about right.
Scheaffer's HTHS of 5.08 cP is plenty heavy enough.
but 5.4 cP sounds about right.
Scheaffer's HTHS of 5.08 cP is plenty heavy enough.
Ok, so in your expert opinion I'm in good shape? 
Yes you've in good shape with the Scheaffer 5W-50 if that is what you want to use; the safety margin will be huge.
In fact since you're not seeing oil temp's over 212F I'd actually recommend a 40wt oil or even a heavy 30wt.
In fact since you're not seeing oil temp's over 212F I'd actually recommend a 40wt oil or even a heavy 30wt.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
There is technical reason why RL suggests you can frequently drop a grade when switching to their 5W-XX or heavier oils and it has nothing to do with a thin vs thick biase.
I never even implied they had a thick vs. thin bias. I am fully aware of their tendency to have high HTHS relative to their kinematic viscosities, and that this is the basis when they say you can often step down a grade with their oils.
Please stop fabricating insinuations. I have better things to do than to keep attacking straw men.
There is technical reason why RL suggests you can frequently drop a grade when switching to their 5W-XX or heavier oils and it has nothing to do with a thin vs thick biase.
I never even implied they had a thick vs. thin bias. I am fully aware of their tendency to have high HTHS relative to their kinematic viscosities, and that this is the basis when they say you can often step down a grade with their oils.
Please stop fabricating insinuations. I have better things to do than to keep attacking straw men.
Originally Posted By: Hummell
Originally Posted By: Gene K
A BMW Powertrain Engineer said if you drive the car very easy (IE 210F Oil Temps) then the car will likely be fine on 5w30 but then if you drive like that then it may not be the right car for you.
Bottom Line as long as you are not exceeding 260F Oil Temp I dont see the need for 10W-60. The 10W-60 was designed to allow the engine to survive at 300F at Open Track Events or During Sustained High Speeds / High RPM like the Autobahn.
PS you need to hook up a scan gauge so you can see more accurate temps and pressures if you cant program it to read out on the digital display.
Man, I drive this car pretty hard for a daily driver. I wouldn't say the M3's not for me...as far as I can tell, you'd have to have the car on a track to reach those temperature's in this car (at least if you're running the Scheaffer's 9000 5w-50). If you're not on a track and you're operating at those temps, you're very close to going to jail because getting the oil temp that high as a daily driver is flat out dangerous in terms of speed and acceleration. The car is a beast. I wouldn't say it's not for me because I'm not redlining the vehicle in every gear all the time! That's unsafe even by my standards (I love to go fast) not to mention darn near impossible around towns and highways in the US without causing an accident.
The M3 is certainly the car for me and to tell you the truth, I wouldn't own any OTHER car. This car fits me like a glove.
Was the powertrain engineer saying that m3's should only be owned by track junkies? Seems like a bad marketing ploy.
That statement was posted by CATERHAM, incidentally.
Here it is for your own assessment:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1650851/
Originally Posted By: Gene K
A BMW Powertrain Engineer said if you drive the car very easy (IE 210F Oil Temps) then the car will likely be fine on 5w30 but then if you drive like that then it may not be the right car for you.
Bottom Line as long as you are not exceeding 260F Oil Temp I dont see the need for 10W-60. The 10W-60 was designed to allow the engine to survive at 300F at Open Track Events or During Sustained High Speeds / High RPM like the Autobahn.
PS you need to hook up a scan gauge so you can see more accurate temps and pressures if you cant program it to read out on the digital display.
Man, I drive this car pretty hard for a daily driver. I wouldn't say the M3's not for me...as far as I can tell, you'd have to have the car on a track to reach those temperature's in this car (at least if you're running the Scheaffer's 9000 5w-50). If you're not on a track and you're operating at those temps, you're very close to going to jail because getting the oil temp that high as a daily driver is flat out dangerous in terms of speed and acceleration. The car is a beast. I wouldn't say it's not for me because I'm not redlining the vehicle in every gear all the time! That's unsafe even by my standards (I love to go fast) not to mention darn near impossible around towns and highways in the US without causing an accident.
The M3 is certainly the car for me and to tell you the truth, I wouldn't own any OTHER car. This car fits me like a glove.
Was the powertrain engineer saying that m3's should only be owned by track junkies? Seems like a bad marketing ploy.
That statement was posted by CATERHAM, incidentally.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1650851/
All I have to offer that's slightly on-subject is that the current U.S.-bound version of M5 that I drove at the BMW High Performance Driving School reached 150C (~300F) oil temps. So did many other drivers' M5s on the same track session. The ambient temperature that day was 103F or so (seriously!) and we were driving the cars very hard. When the M5's oil temp reached ~300F, the engine went into greatly reduced power mode (limp mode) to protect itself. This was the V10 engine for those that don't know...not same as any M3 engine.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Hummell
Originally Posted By: Gene K
A BMW Powertrain Engineer said if you drive the car very easy (IE 210F Oil Temps) then the car will likely be fine on 5w30 but then if you drive like that then it may not be the right car for you.
Bottom Line as long as you are not exceeding 260F Oil Temp I dont see the need for 10W-60. The 10W-60 was designed to allow the engine to survive at 300F at Open Track Events or During Sustained High Speeds / High RPM like the Autobahn.
PS you need to hook up a scan gauge so you can see more accurate temps and pressures if you cant program it to read out on the digital display.
Man, I drive this car pretty hard for a daily driver. I wouldn't say the M3's not for me...as far as I can tell, you'd have to have the car on a track to reach those temperature's in this car (at least if you're running the Scheaffer's 9000 5w-50). If you're not on a track and you're operating at those temps, you're very close to going to jail because getting the oil temp that high as a daily driver is flat out dangerous in terms of speed and acceleration. The car is a beast. I wouldn't say it's not for me because I'm not redlining the vehicle in every gear all the time! That's unsafe even by my standards (I love to go fast) not to mention darn near impossible around towns and highways in the US without causing an accident.
The M3 is certainly the car for me and to tell you the truth, I wouldn't own any OTHER car. This car fits me like a glove.
Was the powertrain engineer saying that m3's should only be owned by track junkies? Seems like a bad marketing ploy.
That statement was posted by CATERHAM, incidentally.
Here it is for your own assessment:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1650851/
Hurtful. I'm a poser, I guess. I guess all vert drivers are posers since they are rarely tracked...why did BMW even make a convertible e46 m3 anyway? I guess just so they could make posers easy to identify. I do a lot of work on this car and I drive it hard. I never considered myself a poser until now because apparently...even if you do all your own work an maintenance on your car that you love...if you don't track it, you shouldn't own it.
Originally Posted By: Hummell
Originally Posted By: Gene K
A BMW Powertrain Engineer said if you drive the car very easy (IE 210F Oil Temps) then the car will likely be fine on 5w30 but then if you drive like that then it may not be the right car for you.
Bottom Line as long as you are not exceeding 260F Oil Temp I dont see the need for 10W-60. The 10W-60 was designed to allow the engine to survive at 300F at Open Track Events or During Sustained High Speeds / High RPM like the Autobahn.
PS you need to hook up a scan gauge so you can see more accurate temps and pressures if you cant program it to read out on the digital display.
Man, I drive this car pretty hard for a daily driver. I wouldn't say the M3's not for me...as far as I can tell, you'd have to have the car on a track to reach those temperature's in this car (at least if you're running the Scheaffer's 9000 5w-50). If you're not on a track and you're operating at those temps, you're very close to going to jail because getting the oil temp that high as a daily driver is flat out dangerous in terms of speed and acceleration. The car is a beast. I wouldn't say it's not for me because I'm not redlining the vehicle in every gear all the time! That's unsafe even by my standards (I love to go fast) not to mention darn near impossible around towns and highways in the US without causing an accident.
The M3 is certainly the car for me and to tell you the truth, I wouldn't own any OTHER car. This car fits me like a glove.
Was the powertrain engineer saying that m3's should only be owned by track junkies? Seems like a bad marketing ploy.
That statement was posted by CATERHAM, incidentally.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1650851/
Hurtful. I'm a poser, I guess. I guess all vert drivers are posers since they are rarely tracked...why did BMW even make a convertible e46 m3 anyway? I guess just so they could make posers easy to identify. I do a lot of work on this car and I drive it hard. I never considered myself a poser until now because apparently...even if you do all your own work an maintenance on your car that you love...if you don't track it, you shouldn't own it.
Hummell, you should be able to hook an OBD 2 tool up to your car and get live readings like oil pressure. Heck, if you have a smart phone there is even a bluetooth adapter for like 50-60 bucks that will give you real time info...
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You're kidding....where can I find one of those? I wouldn't even know what to google for.
I don't think the M3's ECU actually measures oil pressure other than whether it is above or below a certain minimum level (i.e. for the dashboard light, like all cars do). This thread seems to confirm: http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=20804
However, that said, OBD2 tools can let you see some pretty cool stuff. Great geek tool to have in your kit.
Here's one link I found: http://www.bmw-scanner.com/?page=bmw-scanner_v140&lang=eng
However, that said, OBD2 tools can let you see some pretty cool stuff. Great geek tool to have in your kit.
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Is the sky really falling? Or are the guys at the other forum overly paranoid?
BMW fanatics tend to be purists. And BMWNA loves that hook. I was blasted regularly about my choice of oils for my BMW bike. I was told everything from the bike would quit running, leaving me stranded, or it wouldn't start some day, to "It'll blow up on ya". I continued to use Mobil 1 15w50 in the engine, and Redline Shockproof in the final drive. Guess what? Nothing bad happened, and that bike currently has 90k on it. Now BMW bikes and cars aren't the same for sure, but the narrow minded thinking seems to be a constant. Forge on soldier... Schaeffers is a good choice.
Is the sky really falling? Or are the guys at the other forum overly paranoid?
BMW fanatics tend to be purists. And BMWNA loves that hook. I was blasted regularly about my choice of oils for my BMW bike. I was told everything from the bike would quit running, leaving me stranded, or it wouldn't start some day, to "It'll blow up on ya". I continued to use Mobil 1 15w50 in the engine, and Redline Shockproof in the final drive. Guess what? Nothing bad happened, and that bike currently has 90k on it. Now BMW bikes and cars aren't the same for sure, but the narrow minded thinking seems to be a constant. Forge on soldier... Schaeffers is a good choice.
Originally Posted By: Hummell
You're kidding....where can I find one of those? I wouldn't even know what to google for.
I'm not kidding....
Here ya go...
You're kidding....where can I find one of those? I wouldn't even know what to google for.
I'm not kidding....
Here ya go...
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