Here is a tough one that's under heavy debate

[Hummell]

This topic is under heavy debate in the BMW e46 M3 world.

Castrol 10w-60 was designed in parallel with BMW engineers to work on the e46 m3 s54 engine. Now the only motor oil most people are willing to put into their m3 is this 10w-60 TWS from Castrol.

I'm not one of those people.

My 2002 m3 has always run Scheaffer's 9000 Supreme 5w-50 racing engine oil. I've never had any problems, but I'm getting crucified by the m3 purists who tell me not to complain when my engine shuts down due to improper fluids.

I've got 61k on the clock, my engine runs cool, and I've never had any kind of mechanical failure. I have quick cold starts and don't have any reason to believe Scheaffer's isn't doing at least what the Castrol 10w-60 can do.

Do you guys have any insight on Scheaffer's 5w-50 Racing Oil vs Castrol TWS 10w-60? Am I an idiot for straying from the BMW recommended oil for this engine?

Thanks!
Adam

 

[buster]

It's probably ok, but not worth the risk IMO. First, you're one grade below the recommended grade. Have you considered Redline 10w-60 or Pennzoil Ultra 10w60? I'm not saying the Schaeffer's isn't doing a good job, but you're taking a chance.

 

[HomerJ5w40]

Originally Posted By: buster
It's probably ok, but not worth the risk IMO. First, you're one grade below the recommended grade. Have you considered Redline 10w-60 or Pennzoil Ultra 10w60? I'm not saying the Schaeffer's isn't doing a good job, but you're taking a chance.


+1

I ran 5W-50 in my BMW but i had an older one, 325E (Yes, E - you probably know the E30 im referring to, the M27) with "Ireland Engineering" Mods.

Grade is right (if they say 10W-60 use 10W-60), but try RedLine.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Castrol 10w-60 was designed in parallel with BMW engineers


That says it all.BMW warranties this expensive engine with that specific oil,why second guess their their and Castrols development?

 

[toyotaguy]

Stick with 10w60

 

[Gary Allan]

Isn't this like Shell Ultra Helix (it carries the "M" BMW spec)??

If so, why sweat the visc (just for the sake of visc)? The stuff shears two grades in about 5 minutes. It's one of those refried bean things like Mobil 1 0w-40. Why not fry them up right the first time around instead of having the final blending process occur in the engine??

Semi-smarty comment trying to see if you see any reason for it or just accept it "as is".

 

[hate2work]

I can't see any solid reason to stop using the Schaeffers oil. Their 9000 series oil is a terrific product for sure, many testimonials to that end.

If Haas can get away with 20 weight in his Ferrari in Florida, I think you're OK with a 50 weight in your BMW in NC. I mean, you've already put 61k on the engine with the Schaeffers with zero problems, right?

What kinds of problems do these people claim will happen to someone who doesn't use Castrol?

 

[Hummell]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Isn't this rebadged Shell Ultra Helix (it carries the "M" BMW spec)??

If so, why sweat the visc (just for the sake of visc)? The stuff shears two grades in about 5 minutes. It's one of those refried bean things like Mobil 1 0w-40. Why not fry them up right the first time around instead of having the final blending process occur in the engine??

Semi-smarty comment trying to see if you see any reason for it or just accept it "as is".


Gary, that's exactly why I went with and stayed with the Scheaffer's 9000. The 10w-60 degrades very rapidly and the Micron-Moly and blend from the 5w-50 9000 supreme was just too tempting.

 

[d00df00d]

to BITOG!

61k isn't a long time for that engine. Any differences among high quality synthetic oils will take longer than that to play out. However, that said, you probably are not an idiot.

As I understand, a major reason for the 10w-60 in the first place is that the E46 M3 is designed to run all day with oil temperatures up to 300º F. Most other oils would be like water at that temperature. Now, realistically, it would take an extended track day in Arizona in summer to get the oil that hot. If that's not your usage (which I'm guessing it isn't), you're probably fine stepping down one grade.

One piece of advice I will offer is this: be careful making claims based solely on the fact that your engine hasn't exploded yet. The most that can be said in your case is that the Schaeffer 5w-50 isn't catastrophically bad for the engine under your usage, whatever that is. There is no way to know how good it really is without expensive used oil analysis, meticulous records of how the car was driven and in what conditions, and eventually, a tear-down -- for several cars, some with your oil and some with TWS. Barring that, everything is a guess. Perhaps educated, perhaps with decent odds, but still a guess.

Most people refuse to guess with their S54s (or like to claim they wouldn't guess if they had one), and some of them project that feeling on others. You evidently don't mind guessing with your own car and your own money, as long as you feel you have something to back it up. Nothing wrong with that -- at least I hope not, since I'm conducting a similarly "risky" experiment with my own car.

Just gotta make sure we keep everything in perspective.

Hope that helps.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Isn't this like Shell Ultra Helix (it carries the "M" BMW spec)??

Shell Helix Ultra is a whole product line. You're thinking of Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10w-60.

Castrol TWS 10w-60 is the same grade, but not the same oil.

 

[Hummell]

Hey, nice to have a fellow m3'er here. My car never operates at those temperatures. It's a vert, so it never sees any track time. I can, however, get 0-45 very quickly in the city

I haven't found too many cars who can hang with me from stoplight to stoplight LOL

That brings up a good question. Is it bad to have such a heavy duty oil, like the 10w-60, if you're never breaking down the viscosity? Seems like it might be counterproductive to have a high viscosity oil in your engine if you're just running up to the grocery store for a few Guinness.

 

[oilboy123]

I would not have a problem stepping down a grade. Especially with a quality oil like Scheaffers. Why not at least do a used oil analysis or two?

Is the sky really falling? Or are the guys at the other forum overly paranoid?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Hummell
Hey, nice to have a fellow m3'er here. My car never operates at those temperatures. It's a vert, so it never sees any track time. I can, however, get 0-45 very quickly in the city

I haven't found too many cars who can hang with me from stoplight to stoplight LOL

That brings up a good question. Is it bad to have such a heavy duty oil, like the 10w-60, if you're never breaking down the viscosity? Seems like it might be counterproductive to have a high viscosity oil in your engine if you're just running up to the grocery store for a few Guinness.

I sincerely doubt it would be any worse or more counterproductive than using an E46 M3 for that kind of duty.

Castrol TWS 10w-60 is probably one of the best lubricants ever made. I wouldn't sweat the thought that it is too thick, especially since BMW validates its cars in pretty much the whole gamut of climates (i.e. including ones where oil temps would be fairly low).

Besides, short temps = fuel dilution = breakdown. With an oil like TWS, fuel dilution might actually be more likely to break it down than heat or mechanical shear from hard driving.

 

[CATERHAM]

Firstly, welcome to BITOG.

As Buster mentioned Red Line makes a 10W-60 for those who feel they need it.
But you may want to read what Red Line has to say in the lubrication of the E46 M3 on their website. They actually recommend their 5w30 (with a HTHS vis of 3.8 cP it has an operating viscosity on par with a light 40wt) for most BMW's and have stuck their neck out, which is unusual for an oil company, and have stated it works fine in the M3 as well for street use.

 

[d00df00d]

Have they issued some kind of warranty to back the use of 5w30 for the E46 M3 in street use? Red Line is a pretty trustworthy company for sure, but sticking one's neck out usually entails actually putting something on the line besides one's word.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Isn't this like Shell Ultra Helix (it carries the "M" BMW spec)??

Shell Helix Ultra is a whole product line. You're thinking of Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10w-60.

Castrol TWS 10w-60 is the same grade, but not the same oil.


Fine. Does the Castrol wizbang stuff shear like the Shell stuff of the same spec? Does it do it's magic wilting flow dance very early in usage?

Do you have any insight into the "liquid engineering" philosophy that sells a given viscosity oil that never retains the said viscosity in use? I mean, is it applying some Miracle Whip spread on the internals in this process or something of that nature? Perhaps it's based on the theory that with any gain there must be sacrifice.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Fine. Does the Castrol wizbang stuff shear like the Shell stuff of the same spec? Does it do it's magic wilting flow dance very early in usage?

It sort of does the polka, only with a slightly Mediterranean feel.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Do you have any insight into the "liquid engineering" philosophy that sells a given viscosity oil that never retains the said viscosity in use? I mean, is it applying some Miracle Whip spread on the internals in this process or something of that nature? Perhaps it's based on the theory that with any gain there must be sacrifice.

It is based on an acceptance of the cosmic oneness and the necessity of disseminating this awareness where needed, in due time. With this acceptance and dissemination comes a quantum hermeneutics that does indeed evince sacrifice to an extent, ostensibly on the premise that greater fulfillment is facilitated by the resultant emergent properties.


Hope that makes sense.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yes. It is as I thought.

 

[mva]

The 10W60 was introduced by BMW in response to crank bearing failures in the S54 engine.

Depending on the year, there could be a bearing recall/replacement for your car.

10W60 is probably only required in extreme conditions. But if it was my car, I would stick to the BMW oil and follow the oil monitor or less for oil change intervals to maintain resale value and peace of mind.

 

[rjacket]

Originally Posted By: mva
The 10W60 was introduced by BMW in response to crank bearing failures in the S54 engine.

Depending on the year, there could be a bearing recall/replacement for your car.

10W60 is probably only required in extreme conditions. But if it was my car, I would stick to the BMW oil and follow the oil monitor or less for oil change intervals to maintain resale value and peace of mind.


Funnily enough, I didn't understand this post, but the one a couple above made complete sense to me.