Doesn't the OM for 2013 and up Pentastar engines give the option to use 5w30 as well as 5W20? They were originally spec'd for 5W30, changed to 5W20, and now give the option to use both.
Hemi MDS only works on 5w30. Not true
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I think the whole MDS/5w20 thing is going to be one of those urban legends that just won't die... like "removing the thermostat makes an engine overheat because the water doesn't have time to get cool in the radiator." :-/
Haha, I have never heard that one actually!
I think you're right though, at least in this community its not going to die any time soon.
I think the whole MDS/5w20 thing is going to be one of those urban legends that just won't die... like "removing the thermostat makes an engine overheat because the water doesn't have time to get cool in the radiator." :-/
Haha, I have never heard that one actually!
I think you're right though, at least in this community its not going to die any time soon.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Jeez, guys, this issue has been beaten to death all over the internet since 04! It's hardly new.
But the facts are correct, modern day Hemis run great on almost any oil weight without any damage of any kind. MDS is remarkably tolerant of oil grade.
Might wish to note that newer 6.4's in the SRT8's have all the exact same MDS hardware and use 40 weight oil.
Tolerant?? I'd say it's more like doesn't give a [censored]...
The "ahem" requirement was more like a scare tactic to keep owners from using a heavier oil that may skew the CAFE ratings...
Jeez, guys, this issue has been beaten to death all over the internet since 04! It's hardly new.
But the facts are correct, modern day Hemis run great on almost any oil weight without any damage of any kind. MDS is remarkably tolerant of oil grade.
Might wish to note that newer 6.4's in the SRT8's have all the exact same MDS hardware and use 40 weight oil.
Tolerant?? I'd say it's more like doesn't give a [censored]...
The "ahem" requirement was more like a scare tactic to keep owners from using a heavier oil that may skew the CAFE ratings...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Jeez, guys, this issue has been beaten to death all over the internet since 04! It's hardly new.
But the facts are correct, modern day Hemis run great on almost any oil weight without any damage of any kind. MDS is remarkably tolerant of oil grade.
Might wish to note that newer 6.4's in the SRT8's have all the exact same MDS hardware and use 40 weight oil.
I know it has, but this is the first time I've actually saw something printed from Chrysler on the subject.
Good to point out about the SRT 40w.
One thing about the 2500/3500 trucks is that unless they changed for '14, I'm don't think they have MDS.
Jeez, guys, this issue has been beaten to death all over the internet since 04! It's hardly new.
But the facts are correct, modern day Hemis run great on almost any oil weight without any damage of any kind. MDS is remarkably tolerant of oil grade.
Might wish to note that newer 6.4's in the SRT8's have all the exact same MDS hardware and use 40 weight oil.
I know it has, but this is the first time I've actually saw something printed from Chrysler on the subject.
Good to point out about the SRT 40w.
One thing about the 2500/3500 trucks is that unless they changed for '14, I'm don't think they have MDS.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Doesn't the OM for 2013 and up Pentastar engines give the option to use 5w30 as well as 5W20? They were originally spec'd for 5W30, changed to 5W20, and now give the option to use both.
No option in my '13 manual for 5w30. I think '13 is the first year for Pentastars on 5w20, maybe the '14 gives the option?
Doesn't the OM for 2013 and up Pentastar engines give the option to use 5w30 as well as 5W20? They were originally spec'd for 5W30, changed to 5W20, and now give the option to use both.
No option in my '13 manual for 5w30. I think '13 is the first year for Pentastars on 5w20, maybe the '14 gives the option?
So if I have this straight, we have manufacturers recommending a jump to 5w30 for heavy loads, and we have manufacturers using "massive oil coolers" so they can run 5w20.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
Originally Posted By: cp3
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Doesn't the OM for 2013 and up Pentastar engines give the option to use 5w30 as well as 5W20? They were originally spec'd for 5W30, changed to 5W20, and now give the option to use both.
No option in my '13 manual for 5w30. I think '13 is the first year for Pentastars on 5w20, maybe the '14 gives the option?
A member posted here about having the option. I never have much luck with the search function here. He quoted the owners manual, it might have been a 2014. Sorry I can't be more precise, but it was in fact the Pentastar engine.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Doesn't the OM for 2013 and up Pentastar engines give the option to use 5w30 as well as 5W20? They were originally spec'd for 5W30, changed to 5W20, and now give the option to use both.
No option in my '13 manual for 5w30. I think '13 is the first year for Pentastars on 5w20, maybe the '14 gives the option?
A member posted here about having the option. I never have much luck with the search function here. He quoted the owners manual, it might have been a 2014. Sorry I can't be more precise, but it was in fact the Pentastar engine.
The reason Ram has 5w20 is to deal with all the lifters that are sticking. Years of dry start hemi tick have forced them to do something about it, and they tuned their MDS to work best with 5w20. Some people can get away with running 5w30, but many many people are having lifter problems and codes throw all day with other oils then 5w20.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
I was on that bandwagon big time, slowly getting off, but when I see threads like this I feel like jumping off fast.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
I was on that bandwagon big time, slowly getting off, but when I see threads like this I feel like jumping off fast.
Originally Posted By: cp3
No option in my '13 manual for 5w30. I think '13 is the first year for Pentastars on 5w20, maybe the '14 gives the option?
There were a few other threads floating around about it the choice, unfortunately this is the only one I could easily find. This is the part that shows you can use either 5W20 or 5W30.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
2013 Jeep Wrangler
Owner's Manual Page 575-576
Your vehicle manual calls for a 5W20 oil, w/ the API Starburst, and that meets/exceds Chrysler MS6395. If you can not find a 5W20 that meets/exceeds MS 6395 the manual says you can use a 5W30 that meets/exceeds Fiat 9.55535-S1 or Fiat 9.55535-S3.
No option in my '13 manual for 5w30. I think '13 is the first year for Pentastars on 5w20, maybe the '14 gives the option?
There were a few other threads floating around about it the choice, unfortunately this is the only one I could easily find. This is the part that shows you can use either 5W20 or 5W30.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
2013 Jeep Wrangler
Owner's Manual Page 575-576
Your vehicle manual calls for a 5W20 oil, w/ the API Starburst, and that meets/exceds Chrysler MS6395. If you can not find a 5W20 that meets/exceeds MS 6395 the manual says you can use a 5W30 that meets/exceeds Fiat 9.55535-S1 or Fiat 9.55535-S3.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
So if I have this straight, we have manufacturers recommending a jump to 5w30 for heavy loads, and we have manufacturers using "massive oil coolers" so they can run 5w20.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
If there is a "massive oil cooler" on my truck, it is hidden somewhere. My '11 Hemi has a radiator, and condensor/trans cooler and a power steering cooler. Again, where is this oil cooler? BTW, my oil runs ~180ish
So if I have this straight, we have manufacturers recommending a jump to 5w30 for heavy loads, and we have manufacturers using "massive oil coolers" so they can run 5w20.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
If there is a "massive oil cooler" on my truck, it is hidden somewhere. My '11 Hemi has a radiator, and condensor/trans cooler and a power steering cooler. Again, where is this oil cooler? BTW, my oil runs ~180ish
Johnny,
The oil cooler might be in the lifter valley if it is the oil/coolant cooler that is used in the cars.
demarpaint,
Interesting, cannot find any comment like that in my manual. I was thinking it was more a towing thing like the truck, which makes sense to me.
KC & demarpaint,
No need to be on or off the bandwagon really. This allowance by Chrysler is a good thing. Don't forget about the temperature factor in viscosity. In a lot of apps and a lot of usage patterns 5w20 is very likely sufficient and will see an engine to a long healthy life. To me Chrysler here is saying, if vehicle weight is 14000#+ it is not one of those times. It makes complete sense to me that this would heat the oil to higher temps than running around empty. Looking at Petro-Canada 5w20 vs 5w30, the 30 gets you approximately another 15 degrees Celsius. So let's say when the 5w20 is 120C it is the same viscosity as the 5w30 at 135C for example. I don't see this as 5w20 not being good enough, just not thick enough at this temp in this vehicle. Personally, I haven't seen over 95C in the Charger on 5w20 and I can guarantee that it will never have a GVWR or 14000+!
The oil cooler might be in the lifter valley if it is the oil/coolant cooler that is used in the cars.
demarpaint,
Interesting, cannot find any comment like that in my manual. I was thinking it was more a towing thing like the truck, which makes sense to me.
KC & demarpaint,
No need to be on or off the bandwagon really. This allowance by Chrysler is a good thing. Don't forget about the temperature factor in viscosity. In a lot of apps and a lot of usage patterns 5w20 is very likely sufficient and will see an engine to a long healthy life. To me Chrysler here is saying, if vehicle weight is 14000#+ it is not one of those times. It makes complete sense to me that this would heat the oil to higher temps than running around empty. Looking at Petro-Canada 5w20 vs 5w30, the 30 gets you approximately another 15 degrees Celsius. So let's say when the 5w20 is 120C it is the same viscosity as the 5w30 at 135C for example. I don't see this as 5w20 not being good enough, just not thick enough at this temp in this vehicle. Personally, I haven't seen over 95C in the Charger on 5w20 and I can guarantee that it will never have a GVWR or 14000+!
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
So if I have this straight, we have manufacturers recommending a jump to 5w30 for heavy loads, and we have manufacturers using "massive oil coolers" so they can run 5w20.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
If there is a "massive oil cooler" on my truck, it is hidden somewhere. My '11 Hemi has a radiator, and condensor/trans cooler and a power steering cooler. Again, where is this oil cooler? BTW, my oil runs ~180ish
My Hemi 2008 1500, 4X4 does not have an oil cooler either. I think some folks think the black power steering cooler is an engine oil cooler.
I have never seen a factory oil cooler on any Hemi truck yet.
I do know when I use 30 wt oil the oil viscosity sensor picks it up and the blinker turns itself on indicating I need to pull over and put in the correct oil. And this one summer in band camp...
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
So if I have this straight, we have manufacturers recommending a jump to 5w30 for heavy loads, and we have manufacturers using "massive oil coolers" so they can run 5w20.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
If there is a "massive oil cooler" on my truck, it is hidden somewhere. My '11 Hemi has a radiator, and condensor/trans cooler and a power steering cooler. Again, where is this oil cooler? BTW, my oil runs ~180ish
My Hemi 2008 1500, 4X4 does not have an oil cooler either. I think some folks think the black power steering cooler is an engine oil cooler.
I have never seen a factory oil cooler on any Hemi truck yet.
I do know when I use 30 wt oil the oil viscosity sensor picks it up and the blinker turns itself on indicating I need to pull over and put in the correct oil. And this one summer in band camp...
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
So if I have this straight, we have manufacturers recommending a jump to 5w30 for heavy loads, and we have manufacturers using "massive oil coolers" so they can run 5w20.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
If there is a "massive oil cooler" on my truck, it is hidden somewhere. My '11 Hemi has a radiator, and condensor/trans cooler and a power steering cooler. Again, where is this oil cooler? BTW, my oil runs ~180ish
Chrysler usually uses a coolant to oil exchanger that is sandwiched in between the oil filter mount and the block. Unless you know where to look you could easily miss it...
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
So if I have this straight, we have manufacturers recommending a jump to 5w30 for heavy loads, and we have manufacturers using "massive oil coolers" so they can run 5w20.
I think the one foot I had on the 5w20 band wagon is falling off.
If there is a "massive oil cooler" on my truck, it is hidden somewhere. My '11 Hemi has a radiator, and condensor/trans cooler and a power steering cooler. Again, where is this oil cooler? BTW, my oil runs ~180ish
Chrysler usually uses a coolant to oil exchanger that is sandwiched in between the oil filter mount and the block. Unless you know where to look you could easily miss it...
Steve,
If there is an oil cooler on this thing, then they did a great job hiding it!
Oil filter:
Trans cooler lines:
Power steering cooler lines:
If there is an oil cooler on this thing, then they did a great job hiding it!
Oil filter:
Trans cooler lines:
Power steering cooler lines:
Nope, not there.
It's easy to see it as it has coolant hoses going to the 'sandwich' cooler at the oil filter mount.
I suspect you may be correct, a lot of folks get all excited over the PSF cooler...
It's easy to see it as it has coolant hoses going to the 'sandwich' cooler at the oil filter mount.
I suspect you may be correct, a lot of folks get all excited over the PSF cooler...
Check out page 41 of the Maintenance Guide for the Charger Pursuit (Police). It says that Mobil 1 10w30 is optional for the 5.7L Hemi. The Hemi in the Pursuit uses MDS.
https://www.fleet.chrysler.com/v7fleet/StaticFiles/files/Police_Maintenance_Overview_Book.pdf
I have been running Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 in my Challenger with no MDS issues.
https://www.fleet.chrysler.com/v7fleet/StaticFiles/files/Police_Maintenance_Overview_Book.pdf
I have been running Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 in my Challenger with no MDS issues.
So if the OP is correct about Chrysler allowing a 5w30 oil that meets either MB 229.31 or 229.51, then Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5w30 would be a good choice since it meets both of those specs. I may have to try that next time.
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I'm only as correct as the factory service manual
love having access to DealerConnect
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Nope, not there.
It's easy to see it as it has coolant hoses going to the 'sandwich' cooler at the oil filter mount.
I suspect you may be correct, a lot of folks get all excited over the PSF cooler...
Do you think it is worth installing one??
Nope, not there.
It's easy to see it as it has coolant hoses going to the 'sandwich' cooler at the oil filter mount.
I suspect you may be correct, a lot of folks get all excited over the PSF cooler...
Do you think it is worth installing one??
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