Help ZPPD levels

[brandonA]

hello I have recently been made aware of the lower Zppd levels in current oil standards. I have 3 vehicles with flat tappet cams that need ZPPD levels of 1200 or more. I am trying to figure out what to use. They are international scouts from the 1970's.
-1st idea: use EOS from GM as an additive or Redline engine break in additive to get the levels back up to where they need to be.

-Is this inferior to just using an oil that already has the correct amount in it?


-Also Can one have too much ZPPD? If I were to unknowingly have an oil that already had enough ZPPD in it and then added EOS would an over dose do damage over time?


-I read somewhere that shells Rotella T has more ZPPD, but how much exactly is more?


-Are they talking about the synthetic or regular rotella?


-Also on the back of the regular Rotella T 15w40 it states that it meets SM/SL/CJ-4/CI-4/ (This is common on many different brands of oil) How can it meet the new SM/CJ-4 standards and still meet the old SL standard that I want? If the SM standard has lower ZPPD than it can't also meet the older SL standard Correct????? Help!!!!!
Thanks

 

[Steve S]

Both syn and conventional HDEOs have higher additive levels hence the description lable of Heavy Duty Engine Oils. These oils are designed to withstand the most severe commercial use in gasoline and diesel engines. If you add EOS to boost additive levels use only a part of the can as too much is not good . Look up in the virgin and used oil anaylsis posts to see the difference in additive amounts.

 

[jstutz]

All the HDEOs 15w40 that i know of have 1100ppm ZDDP or more. I believe that most of the CJ rated oils have 1200 ppm zddp where it used to be common to have around 1400. If you search around on the VOA you will find the levels for most common HDEOs. It can be rated SM and have higher ZDDP as long as the Diesel spec is listed first. I cannot remember what the number is but if you do a google search for SAE ratings you will find the rules. I believe it is 800 for car oil SM and 1200 for HDEOs. If you want a great oil try to find some older Delo 400 CI rated stuff and not the CJ it has levels about 1400 and has done great in many used oil analysis.

 

[jstutz]

Here is a VOA of old rotella CI4 spec. Most of the older CI4 oils are similar in the ZDDP dept. Even the Walmart ST.


Oil test was done by Oil Analyzers
Iron 1ppm
Chromium 0ppm
Lead 0ppm
Copper 0ppm
Tin 0ppm
Aluminum 0ppm
Nickle 0ppm
Silver 0ppm
Silicon 2ppm
Boron 0ppm
Sodium 0ppm
Magnenesium 20ppm
Calcium 3322 ppm
Barium 0ppm
Phosphorous 1326ppm
Zinc 1499ppm
Molybdenum 0ppm
Titanium 0ppm
Vanadium 0ppm
Potassium 0ppm
VIS@100C 15.12cSt
Tbn 10.36

 

[Steve S]

Late thought, how much pressure do the valve springs have?

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: brandonA
I have 3 vehicles with flat tappet cams that need ZPPD levels of 1200 or more. I am trying to figure out what to use. They are international scouts from the 1970's.


Just out of curiosity, how do you know they need at least 1200ppm? FWIW, your Binder engines are just like mine and everyone else's Jeep. You'll be fine on regular SM oil.

If you have aftermarket cams, I could see the concern. I think someone posted that Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w40 had a decent amount of ZDDP. My old Delo SAE30 is up there too.

 

[jstutz]

Zaedock is correct, both HM mobil 1 oils have 1000 ppm. I have a sheet at work that has all the levels listed for all the different mobil 1 oils. ill post it tomorrow. Also the viscosity is a little thicker than there reg oils. for example the 10w30 HM is a little thicker than the reg Mobil 1 10w30

 

[jstutz]

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf


here is the link to the mobil 1 guide. Notice there 15w50 says recommended for flat tappet cams.

 

[brandonA]

One of my trucks has an aftermarket cam. I can't get into an argument as I am not educated enough on this topic to argue the 1200 number. All I know is that it is what the IH factory recommended back in the 70's and has been covered on various websites for my particular vehicle. I am simply trying to understand how to read a quart of oil so I can determine what is safe to use through knowing the ZPPD levels. Thanks for all the responses!

 

[Steve S]

Our pleasure. International pickups have great personality.

 

[jstutz]

here is a post from back in January talking about this.

Over on the VOA forum there was a debate about the zinc and phosphorus levels of the Rotella T 15w40. I thought I'd e-mail Shell and ask what they claimed. Here's what they said:

"Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15w40 with Triple Protection Technology, our API CJ-4/SM specification product, typically contains about 1200 ppm zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorous as manufactured."


here is the link incase you want to read thru it.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/rotella-t-15w-40-cj-4-sm-with-triple-protection.82327/

 

[FastSUV]

Rotella or Valvoline VR1 would do the trick...But FYI, a good 10w40 of any major brand or hunt down some of the SL rated oils at the dollar stores or the Accel oil from Wal-mart...That is what u need for dino...

For full-syn (which you really do not need), you can use Mobil 1 High Mileage, or Rotella T-syn.

I have flat tappet in my 4.0 Jeep and it is fine on modern oil because it has stock cam & weak OEM valve springs