Help with replacement car for son

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Originally Posted By: Finz


1. I will never support GM post-bail out

Sorry for the long post - can't imagine I left anything out...?

Your thoughts?


Ford took money, and other forms financial assistance and credit from the government too.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: Finz


1. I will never support GM post-bail out

Sorry for the long post - can't imagine I left anything out...?

Your thoughts?


Ford took money, and other forms financial assistance and credit from the government too.



There are so many businesses getting bailouts, tax breaks, incentives and other handouts from the government it's impossible to keep straight. But hey, if that's what makes you feel good...
 
Paying that much for an older Civic that probably cost what $18k new?

I'd just spend the extra on a new Civic with a long warranty and make him take out a small note for the difference.

The extra money is well spent to get a car with a known history, full warranty, and 0 miles.
 
The Fiesta is made in Mexico. Nothing wrong with making a vehicle in Mexico... but I hate when American companies encourage "buying american" and do not do that themselves for the US market. My friend/neighbor bought the Fiesta one year after I bought the Fit (J made now, mexico with the next model). He has been in the shop with his fiesta at least a dozen times. The Honda needed the rear driver-side door's weatherstripping to be reattached.

It is not even a comparison. Fit > Fiesta. Sure, I paid about $1500 more but I think it has paid for itself for the extra.

Hyundai/Kia is not on on the same level as Toyota/Honda/Mazda/Subaru. Those are the four who make the top-grade reliable products (not necessarily the best, but just the reliable)... and even then not all of their models are roses. I would even go and say the gap between those four is less than it was. Nissan is not even up with their rivals, but they are cheaper... which you can kinda figure out why. Ford's quality has dipped of late. GM is better, Chrysler is a lot better but not there yet. Germany makes great initial quality but they are not as well designed as one would hope. H/K is "ok" but with the exception of a few models, their quality is no higher than domestic brands and I would lean towards the domestics being better.

I could care less which maker got "money" from the government for as long as they are not a bank (because anyone who can not manage their own money should not be paid to manage others). Other countries "bail out" their industry so why not ours? Hyundai/Kia merged in their bailout, VW has been bailed out... and I think the Japanese have gotten bumps as well. Corporations will figure out how to get money, even if it is from taxpayers.
 
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Originally Posted By: FutureDoc


Hyundai/Kia is not on on the same level as Toyota/Honda/Mazda/Subaru. Those are the four who make the top-grade reliable products (not necessarily the best, but just the reliable)... and even then not all of their models are roses. I would even go and say the gap between those four is less than it was. ...


The gap has actually increased a bit again. For awhile, Hyundai was intent on proving themselves to be every bit as reliable as the Japanese marques. They were getting top ratings on reliability. The recent models are more stylish, but do not seem to be getting the ratings the earlier models did.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Hyundai_Elantra/2009/
The 2009 Honda Civic and Elantra have a lot in common. Both are reliable commuter cars with good fuel economy ratings, though reviewers considered the Civic more fun to drive than the Elantra. The Civic also has better safety ratings, though it can’t match the Elantra’s reliability score. The Elantra also offers more rear-seat space and a larger trunk.
Check out the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta if you want a small used car with spacious seating and a lot of trunk space, but with a more upscale interior. The Jetta also has more standard features than the Elantra. The Jetta has a low reliability score, however.


You should always take these reviews with a grain of salt. They often rank the Kia models, which are mechanically identical, lower than their Hyundai siblings.
 
Buy my Mazdaspeed3 for $15,000. Teach the young man to drive a stick. It's his second car, time for some fun factor.
 
He's 21 now, so I'd be less worried about wrecking (at least much less likely to be his fault). That out of the way, I'm not sure I could go less than $10k for a used car (my first thought), I've grown partial to all the safety features. At $11.5k I'd be tempted to use that as a downpayment and buy new, pay off in a year or two. It's just really nice to not have to worry about repairs etc for a few years, and if one is wise, they should be able to make a new car last a decade or more, even at 25k/year.

One question: if it's his car and not yours, how come he isn't doing the shopping? I presume you're just helping?
 
When I was buying my sister a car in this segment I found that it hardly pays to buy used. I was looking at 2 year old Versa's with under 20k on them that were simply trashed.

The oil was black, probably only changed once. The outside looks like a little league team used it for a backstop, and the interior looked like a homeless person had been living in it.

Plus a lot of cars at that price point are bought from auctions by flippers. I'd ask them over the phone how long they owned it, if it as under a year I wouldn't even bother to go look at it.

This is a case of when spending a bit more, gets you a lot more and over the long haul its actually cheaper.
 
A post MMC 7th gen. Accord ('06-'07) would be a great choice. My wife and I both had '07 Accords at one point and they felt like more expensive cars than they were plus they're reliable, safe, and had just enough sportiness to be fun at times.

Not sure I'd completely write off the Civic though. I know several of that generation well north of 150k miles now with no issues. Remember Honda made well over a million of these engines and only a small number have had issues, you run odds close to that with pretty much any used car.

Fiesta might be a really good choice but a little tin-can-like for my taste. Stay away from Versa and Sentra, I know a few people with issues (esp with Versa). I'd pass on Corolla, it might be the most reliable thing on earth but it's far from safe compared to all the other choices available.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

The gap has actually increased a bit again. For awhile, Hyundai was intent on proving themselves to be every bit as reliable as the Japanese marques. They were getting top ratings on reliability. The recent models are more stylish, but do not seem to be getting the ratings the earlier models did.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Hyundai_Elantra/2009/
The 2009 Honda Civic and Elantra have a lot in common. Both are reliable commuter cars with good fuel economy ratings, though reviewers considered the Civic more fun to drive than the Elantra. The Civic also has better safety ratings, though it can’t match the Elantra’s reliability score. The Elantra also offers more rear-seat space and a larger trunk.
Check out the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta if you want a small used car with spacious seating and a lot of trunk space, but with a more upscale interior. The Jetta also has more standard features than the Elantra. The Jetta has a low reliability score, however.


You should always take these reviews with a grain of salt. They often rank the Kia models, which are mechanically identical, lower than their Hyundai siblings.


Actually, the choice for the Mrs was between the '09 Jetta Wagon and the '09 Fit. The VW was the "nicer" vehicle but she liked the Fit more overall. In addition, the VW dealer was over a hour away and the Mrs is obsessive about the dealer getting business during the warranty period. After that, VW pulled quality to meet a price-point in the post-recession years.

I would kinda agree with you on that, but I am expecting to see Honda drop down a bit. Fit being made in Mexico and "value engineering" within the Civic and maybe in the new Accord showing some issues now the redesigned Civic is getting a few years old. Toyota is still building the same cars it was 10 years ago so they are reliable (but not as good as it was) but dated. Mazda has impressed me the most. Two of my former college room mates both ended up getting Mazda3 at different times four. One is really hard on a car (you can tell he delivered pizza in high schools). Both have been champs.

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As far as picking out a vehicle... I would be wary. Let him choose. Car shopping is a hobby of mine (my soul is research analysis) and I have realized that in the end, let the person driving it have 3-4 good option and let them decide. Small thing can swing a consumer different ways and it drives the automakers nuts. For my wife, visibility and a place to put her purse are key. For my father, shoulder room is important along with back-support. My brother is more about the badge and features than anything else. I am more about the brakes and suspension. The end user will pick features about a vehicle they like more over those that do not suit them.
 
Having owned a 2009 Sonata here for nearly five years (unloaded it last July) I strongly disagree about Hyundai quality being on par with other well recognized brands. On top of the non-trivial problems it had, the Hyundai dealer made no effort to remedy anything under warranty. It was a disaster I do not care to repeat. Of course, this is a sample of one. I agree with those who wrote that Honda and Toyota quality has degraded in the last decade or so, but from what I've observed with friends who own them, they are still significantly better than the Hyundai. And Hyundai's recent move to GDI engines (I question how well they worked out the GDI challenges) makes me even more wary of their vehicles for the long haul.
 
Thank you all very much... spent most of yesterday and too much time today looking at dealer web sites and the Edmunds/KBB/NADA for price comparisons.

So many of you responded:

sparky123

I personally would NOT get a 08' Civic which is 6 model yrs. old for 11K+. The 8th generation of Civics had the engine casting issues.


I've looked around and simply cant find anything with regard to this issue: TSBs, Civic forums,...Can anyone elaborate?

gregk24

Have you considered a late 7th gen or early 8th gen Accord? The K24 has a timing chain so no belt to worry about, and they are very reliable. Plus, you could get a 7th gen for less then what your budget is. Another good suggestion would be a corolla as others have said. I would avoid that 08 Civic, they like to crash engine blocks.



I like the Acord, too, and see they are a good deal. With his commuting, though, MPG has to be high... Personally, I can get 35-40 mpg out of my acord, but I drive it in a completely different way.

Again, crashing Engine Blocks... where else can I look to find this data?

Spazdog

If it is just a commuter car, I would look at the 2007-'10 Hyundai Elantras.



Spent some time at a Hyundai dealer today - they have some recent trade-ins I'll look at tomorrow

abycat

My versa has been one great car. I would recommend it to anyone.


I'd take one of these in a heart beat - or a Yarris or a Matrix or.... but, again, his commute lends itself to something with a little more meat to it

cptbarkey

Because of basic physics, i couldnt recommend the fiesta. With highway commuting (and piece of mind with safety) get a larger midsize sedan. Your son already totaled his first car, his second one should be bigger. I'm not placing blame because you didnt post specifics, but he is 21, and will probably wreck it again.



I agree about the heavier car. With regard to the 04 Civic, he was rear ended. Heck of a story actually if you'd care to read it: Post #3216048

He's driving to a friend's apt Sunday nite and is heading east on a 4 lane major road. Well lit road but it was icy and around 7 PM He sees a pickup that must have been heading west bound on its side up on the lawn in front of some other apts.

Nobody is around

He pulls a u turn and heads back to the pick up... Hits flashers and stops about 30' away

Runs up to the truck and the driver side door is trying to open. He climbs up and is kneeling behind the door on the cab and pulls the door open and there's an older gent trying to get out. He helps the guy out and then sees another person in the passenger seat.. The guy's grandson. He helps him out.

He jumps down from his perch and then hears a crash and then the whole truck jumps toward them about a foot Then they all sort of run back and around the truck

Some woman in a Durango nailed his civic so hard she shot it the 30' and it actually hit/bounced in then out of the pick up's bed.

I get chills just thinking about it... 30 seconds, a minute sooner and he would have been perched right over the top - half in/half out of the truck and that could have been really, really bad.

Little question in my mind that the lady was texting or doing something like that.. You'll see from the pics that she yanked the wheel at the last minute and hammered the car at an angle which is why the car jumped at such an angle onto the lawn instead of getting thrown str8 ahead. How fast do you have to be going to launch a stopped car 30 feet?

Just goes to show you... We never know what can happen when we get behind the wheel. Want to make God laugh? Tell him your plans

Sorry for the long winded post, but I'm so proud of him for helping those guys and so thankful it was only a car that was damag
ed
 
Go to Yahoo.com and look up "8th gen civic engine block probem." First thing that came up for me was from "www.civicforums.com" and you will see that certain '06-09 R18 engine's had this potential issue. Which ones? Who knows. Does not inspire too much confidence in Honda for me personally.
 
hattaresguy

I'd just spend the extra on a new Civic with a long warranty and make him take out a small note for the difference.



I wish it were that easy but his college loans are close to an amount that equaled my first mortgage...

Indydriver

Buy my Mazdaspeed3 for $15,000. Teach the young man to drive a stick



We are going with a manual tranny and may be looking more closely at the Mazda 3 tomorrow.

supton

He's 21 now, so I'd be less worried about wrecking (at least much less likely to be his fault). That out of the way, I'm not sure I could go less than $10k for a used car (my first thought), I've grown partial to all the safety features. At $11.5k I'd be tempted to use that as a downpayment and buy new, pay off in a year or two. It's just really nice to not have to worry about repairs etc for a few years, and if one is wise, they should be able to make a new car last a decade or more, even at 25k/year.

One question: if it's his car and not yours, how come he isn't doing the shopping? I presume you're just helping?


Exactly right - get a daily drive for half the cost and there's a better chance I'll get the 2 am phone call but it's more the safety features. The Mada I referenced above may or may not have a full complement of air bags... If not, it's a non starter.

Why am I helping? LOL... I've been asking myself the same thing. Seriously, though, I have more experience and the PLAN is that this car should/could last him over the next decade (if he's smart about it). My head on his shoulders: Will the fiesta hold 2 car seats in the back? Does the Fiesta have enough "history" to comfortably say this should last a good long time? Basically, learn from my mistakes... Will never happen but I can dream


FutureDoc

As far as picking out a vehicle... I would be wary. Let him choose. Car shopping is a hobby of mine (my soul is research analysis) and I have realized that in the end, let the person driving it have 3-4 good option and let them decide. Small thing can swing a consumer different ways and it drives the automakers nuts. For my wife, visibility and a place to put her purse are key. For my father, shoulder room is important along with back-support. My brother is more about the badge and features than anything else. I am more about the brakes and suspension. The end user will pick features about a vehicle they like more over those that do not suit them.



I agree with you - the final decision will be his as he's the one driving it

sparky123

Go to Yahoo.com and look up "8th gen civic engine block probem." First thing that came up for me was from "www.civicforums.com" and you will see that certain '06-09 R18 engine's had this potential issue.




Thank you - that's a real eye opener.
 
Late model Malibus and Mercury Milans depreciate like a lead weight in the ocean. Maybe take a look at those. With regards to you not wanting to support GM, GM doesn't see any profit from the sale of a used car anyways. Both of them are much better cars than any used econo car. At least you get much more car for the money.
 
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Late model Malibus and Mercury Milans depreciate like a lead weight in the ocean. Maybe take a look at those. With regards to you not wanting to support GM, GM doesn't see any profit from the sale of a used car anyways. Both of them are much better cars than any used econo car. At least you get much more car for the money.


Interesting perspective on the GM &- the Milan is a sharp looking car... I'll check them out.

Thank you
 
Originally Posted By: Finz
Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Late model Malibus and Mercury Milans depreciate like a lead weight in the ocean. Maybe take a look at those. With regards to you not wanting to support GM, GM doesn't see any profit from the sale of a used car anyways. Both of them are much better cars than any used econo car. At least you get much more car for the money.


Interesting perspective on the GM &- the Milan is a sharp looking car... I'll check them out.

Thank you


Of the Mazda6/Fusion/Milan/MKZ, I am a little biased towards the Mazda6

$11,000 should get you a '09/'10 Mazda6i Sport with about 50-60K miles. 6i Grand Touring or V6 6S sport will be more miles or older. (retail prices)
MKZ is going to be near 100,000 miles at that price. But they are my second choice in the GG Mazda chassis based cars.

Interestingly enough, I went to buy a Mazda3S. My 6S was actually cheaper.

I like the Malibu. To me it's a more interesting Camry than the Camry itself is. My only real concern with the Malibu is some really bad fuel economy numbers reported here on BITOG
 
Honda or Toyota, Civic, Corolla, Accord, or Camry. Even a Scion tC if he's into small coupes.

I'd avoid the V6 Accord though due to transmission issues.
 
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