Hellcat-Powered Jeep Grand Cherokee Coming in 2017

[IndyIan]

I think the key features of these SUV's is that you can look down at everyone while going faster than them.
Although even this one still can't beat the Tesla S in ludicrous mode... But atleast you can look down at them.

 

[morepwr]

Finally an SUV that I would like to have!

 

[hattaresguy]

Nice they should sell a boat load of them.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Now if they could put the AWD Hellcat setup in something that wasn't north of 5000 lbs... Or maybe in something that didn't have a high center of gravity without much ground clearance to make up for it...


The problem is, an engine like the Hellcat needs a fair amount of "infrastructure" to work as well as it does (aftercoolers, coolant loops for the aftercoolers, electric coolant pumps, coolant-to-air heat exchangers, oil coolers) and fitting all that in a small chassis is hard. GM did it with the Z06, and immediately got lambasted for the fact that it can't sustain its full output for as long as the Hellcat can (and recently got roasted in another review because its not nearly as well balanced as a Viper ACR). The Hellcat had a "20 minutes on a road course without power reduction" goal, and they met it. But they couldn't have if they'd tried to put that engine in a Viper... which is why the Viper still has its normally-aspirated V10 with a slightly lower horsepower rating but enabling a much lighter overall package.

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
I still don't quite see the point of building a super high performance lowered SUV. It can't much in the way of SUV things anymore, and it's handicapped when it comes to doing the car things they're trying to make it do.


At first blush, I would tend to agree. But the segment is pretty hot, between the Cayenne S and S turbo, JGC SRT-8 and now SRT Hellcat, and the BMW X5 M. Nevermind the 510-horsepower Range Rover. A co-worker has a Cayenne S, and while he doesn't go rock-crawling with it he does go up unimproved trails to get to his West Texas land from time to time. Its still capable of that level of SUV-ness. And its just fun to drive. Heck, a regular 5.7 Grand Cherokee is a really nice, fun, powerful car- even if you don't use the suspension travel for rock crawling, it is also very good at soaking up interstate expansion joints and potholes. I think today this class sorta appeals to the buyer who would have gone for a 300 Letter Series in the 50s: Roomy, smooth, highly-optioned, and comfortable are important, but a lot of refined power on tap is nice too.


Its a demographic change. The hot $100k SUV replaced the large sedan, if you look at the average driver of a $100k sedan they have white hair. Not so much with the SUV's.

I can see why, and SUV is simply just much more useful.

The Cayenne is a perfect example of this. Porsche enthusiasts howled like Porsche killed their first born's when they came out. Now a lot of the former howling Porsche enthusiasts have a Cayenne...or at the very least lease one for their wives.

 

[Olas]

I'm pretty sure production won't keep up with demand and used ones will sell for more than (unavailable) brand new ones, but it wouldn't be my choice. A V8 Defender could easily be made to go significantly quicker while still saving over the JGC, while remaining infinitely capable off road. Makes me wonder why the Hellcat JGC is even being produced..

 

[Malo83]

More Jeep rollovers forecasted!

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Olas
I'm pretty sure production won't keep up with demand and used ones will sell for more than (unavailable) brand new ones, but it wouldn't be my choice. A V8 Defender could easily be made to go significantly quicker while still saving over the JGC, while remaining infinitely capable off road. Makes me wonder why the Hellcat JGC is even being produced..


Remember we are not in the Uk, and no a Defender couldn't touch this. The NVH on one even with 600hp would be horrible and downright scary. That truck isn't designed for that kind of HP.

Besides good Defenders here cost just as much.

 

[GMBoy]

Wife has a loaded '14 Grand Cherokee Overland. Love it and I would be first in line for a hellcat version if they keep it under 70k.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Olas
I'm pretty sure production won't keep up with demand and used ones will sell for more than (unavailable) brand new ones, but it wouldn't be my choice. A V8 Defender could easily be made to go significantly quicker while still saving over the JGC, while remaining infinitely capable off road. Makes me wonder why the Hellcat JGC is even being produced..


Remember we are not in the Uk, and no a Defender couldn't touch this. The NVH on one even with 600hp would be horrible and downright scary. That truck isn't designed for that kind of HP.

Besides good Defenders here cost just as much.


NVH is all part of the fun! Turbos, manifolds, fuelling etc etc 10k would build a reliable 1000hp defender, which would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the JGC.
Power to weight ratio

Another few grand to build a drivetrain to take the motor, you have one of the most capable off readers in the world with hp/ton approaching that of a veyron, and still have 50+k in change.

 

[sw99]

Maybe I should start telling the wife I really like the looks of the GC. Plant the seed now huh?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Olas
I'm pretty sure production won't keep up with demand and used ones will sell for more than (unavailable) brand new ones, but it wouldn't be my choice. A V8 Defender could easily be made to go significantly quicker while still saving over the JGC, while remaining infinitely capable off road. Makes me wonder why the Hellcat JGC is even being produced..


Remember we are not in the Uk, and no a Defender couldn't touch this. The NVH on one even with 600hp would be horrible and downright scary. That truck isn't designed for that kind of HP.

Besides good Defenders here cost just as much.


NVH is all part of the fun! Turbos, manifolds, fuelling etc etc 10k would build a reliable 1000hp defender, which would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the JGC.
Power to weight ratio

Another few grand to build a drivetrain to take the motor, you have one of the most capable off readers in the world with hp/ton approaching that of a veyron, and still have 50+k in change.


I'm guessing you've never built anything remotely close to that kind of power level based on how simple you seem to think it will be to make, be reliable, and upgrade the drivetrain to handle it.

 

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Olas
I'm pretty sure production won't keep up with demand and used ones will sell for more than (unavailable) brand new ones, but it wouldn't be my choice. A V8 Defender could easily be made to go significantly quicker while still saving over the JGC, while remaining infinitely capable off road. Makes me wonder why the Hellcat JGC is even being produced..


Remember we are not in the Uk, and no a Defender couldn't touch this. The NVH on one even with 600hp would be horrible and downright scary. That truck isn't designed for that kind of HP.

Besides good Defenders here cost just as much.


NVH is all part of the fun! Turbos, manifolds, fuelling etc etc 10k would build a reliable 1000hp defender, which would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the JGC.
Power to weight ratio

Another few grand to build a drivetrain to take the motor, you have one of the most capable off readers in the world with hp/ton approaching that of a veyron, and still have 50+k in change.


By that point, just build the motor and add boost in an old JGC like mine. It's almost 1000 lbs lighter than a new one and getting 1000hp from a small block Mopar is entirely do-able if you're willing to spend enough $$$.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Olas
I'm pretty sure production won't keep up with demand and used ones will sell for more than (unavailable) brand new ones, but it wouldn't be my choice. A V8 Defender could easily be made to go significantly quicker while still saving over the JGC, while remaining infinitely capable off road. Makes me wonder why the Hellcat JGC is even being produced..


Remember we are not in the Uk, and no a Defender couldn't touch this. The NVH on one even with 600hp would be horrible and downright scary. That truck isn't designed for that kind of HP.

Besides good Defenders here cost just as much.


NVH is all part of the fun! Turbos, manifolds, fuelling etc etc 10k would build a reliable 1000hp defender, which would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the JGC.
Power to weight ratio

Another few grand to build a drivetrain to take the motor, you have one of the most capable off readers in the world with hp/ton approaching that of a veyron, and still have 50+k in change.


Real life works a bit differently than play station. Lets ignore the hard engineering fact for a moment that getting a lot of reliable HP is actually very hard and expensive.

Do you have any idea of what it would take for a Defender chassis to stand up to that kind of HP and speed? For starters the axles would twist off both from HP and larger brakes.

Real life is not play station, you can't bolt a turbo and a bottle to a truck designed for 150hp and 50mph roads and all of a sudden race a Veyron.

In the real world the Icon Bronco is close to what your talking about and trades for around $200k US, compared to about $60k for this Jeep. And again we are in the US, a Defender that is stock and not a POS is $30k, half of the price of this Jeep out of the gate...

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Olas
I'm pretty sure production won't keep up with demand and used ones will sell for more than (unavailable) brand new ones, but it wouldn't be my choice. A V8 Defender could easily be made to go significantly quicker while still saving over the JGC, while remaining infinitely capable off road. Makes me wonder why the Hellcat JGC is even being produced..


Remember we are not in the Uk, and no a Defender couldn't touch this. The NVH on one even with 600hp would be horrible and downright scary. That truck isn't designed for that kind of HP.

Besides good Defenders here cost just as much.


NVH is all part of the fun! Turbos, manifolds, fuelling etc etc 10k would build a reliable 1000hp defender, which would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the JGC.
Power to weight ratio

Another few grand to build a drivetrain to take the motor, you have one of the most capable off readers in the world with hp/ton approaching that of a veyron, and still have 50+k in change.



$10k isn't going to build a 1000HP anything. Reliable anything, even less likely.

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: Olas
I'm pretty sure production won't keep up with demand and used ones will sell for more than (unavailable) brand new ones, but it wouldn't be my choice. A V8 Defender could easily be made to go significantly quicker while still saving over the JGC, while remaining infinitely capable off road. Makes me wonder why the Hellcat JGC is even being produced..


Remember we are not in the Uk, and no a Defender couldn't touch this. The NVH on one even with 600hp would be horrible and downright scary. That truck isn't designed for that kind of HP.

Besides good Defenders here cost just as much.


NVH is all part of the fun! Turbos, manifolds, fuelling etc etc 10k would build a reliable 1000hp defender, which would weigh SIGNIFICANTLY less than the JGC.
Power to weight ratio

Another few grand to build a drivetrain to take the motor, you have one of the most capable off readers in the world with hp/ton approaching that of a veyron, and still have 50+k in change.


Real life works a bit differently than play station. Lets ignore the hard engineering fact for a moment that getting a lot of reliable HP is actually very hard and expensive.

Do you have any idea of what it would take for a Defender chassis to stand up to that kind of HP and speed? For starters the axles would twist off both from HP and larger brakes.

Real life is not play station, you can't bolt a turbo and a bottle to a truck designed for 150hp and 50mph roads and all of a sudden race a Veyron.

In the real world the Icon Bronco is close to what your talking about and trades for around $200k US, compared to about $60k for this Jeep. And again we are in the US, a Defender that is stock and not a POS is $30k, half of the price of this Jeep out of the gate...


You source a 3.9 V8 car, low comp pistons and ARP fasteners, feed it E85 and 2 bar of boost, and mapping, engine is done.
Either cryo the driveline or use it as templates to re-make the driveline out of CF/Ti/whatever, it'll take the power.

Know how to weld? Brace the chassis..

Go faster for cheaper is the only option.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Take it from someone who has actually been involved in the engineering and building of several 1000+HP automotive and marine engines: There's no way in Beelzebub's ranch that you're going to get anything but an explosion with that combo.

Stock block? No way.
Stock crank? No way.
Stock transmission architecture with any amount of exotic parts? No way.
Stock transfer case with same? No way.

Make the drivetrain out of Ti/CF? You just blew your $10k budget right there.

Addressing any one component of a 1000HP Land Rover is going to cost nearly your $10k budget.

A 1000HP engine is at least a $50k engine no matter which way you slice it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Take it from someone who has actually been involved in the engineering and building of several 1000+HP automotive and marine engines: There's no way in Beelzebub's ranch that you're going to get anything but an explosion with that combo.

Stock block? No way.
Stock crank? No way.
Stock transmission architecture with any amount of exotic parts? No way.
Stock transfer case with same? No way.

Make the drivetrain out of Ti/CF? You just blew your $10k budget right there.

Addressing any one component of a 1000HP Land Rover is going to cost nearly your $10k budget.

A 1000HP engine is at least a $50k engine no matter which way you slice it.

Most of the guys I know playing in the 500+RWHP area would say "been there, broke that"

 

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Take it from someone who has actually been involved in the engineering and building of several 1000+HP automotive and marine engines: There's no way in Beelzebub's ranch that you're going to get anything but an explosion with that combo.

Stock block? No way.
Stock crank? No way.
Stock transmission architecture with any amount of exotic parts? No way.
Stock transfer case with same? No way.

Make the drivetrain out of Ti/CF? You just blew your $10k budget right there.

Addressing any one component of a 1000HP Land Rover is going to cost nearly your $10k budget.

A 1000HP engine is at least a $50k engine no matter which way you slice it.


Agreed. Taking a vehicle where I know what it takes to make that kind of power (my Jeep), you'd need:

- Build the trans. The stock one (basically a 727 torqueflite with OD) will do, but it's gonna need a lot of $$$ put into it.
- Beefier t-case
- Beefier rear axle and driveshaft (unlikely to dump all that power on in 4wd)
- Built motor (all internals, and using even a half-filled stock block is questionable, it really should be done with one of the aftermarket race blocks)
- Boost
- Suspension upgrades to make it not a total deathtrap
- Reinforce suspension mounting points and brace the chassis

The parts 100% exist to do it, but it's not gonna be cheap or easy.

 

[hattaresguy]

That's the magic with these stock vehicles, you get 700+hp with a metric [censored] ton of engineering and durability testing, for really a bargain price. When you think about it you can buy that SRT Jeep, daily drive it like any regular Jeep for 100k miles, probably doing 10k mile oil changes, than trade it off. No different than a normal Jeep...but it has 700+ Hp. Really amazing.

Olas stick to Xbox.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Take it from someone who has actually been involved in the engineering and building of several 1000+HP automotive and marine engines: There's no way in Beelzebub's ranch that you're going to get anything but an explosion with that combo.

Stock block? No way.
Stock crank? No way.
Stock transmission architecture with any amount of exotic parts? No way.
Stock transfer case with same? No way.

Make the drivetrain out of Ti/CF? You just blew your $10k budget right there.

Addressing any one component of a 1000HP Land Rover is going to cost nearly your $10k budget.

A 1000HP engine is at least a $50k engine no matter which way you slice it.


Agreed. Taking a vehicle where I know what it takes to make that kind of power (my Jeep), you'd need:

- Build the trans. The stock one (basically a 727 torqueflite with OD) will do, but it's gonna need a lot of $$$ put into it.
- Beefier t-case
- Beefier rear axle and driveshaft (unlikely to dump all that power on in 4wd)
- Built motor (all internals, and using even a half-filled stock block is questionable, it really should be done with one of the aftermarket race blocks)
- Boost
- Suspension upgrades to make it not a total deathtrap
- Reinforce suspension mounting points and brace the chassis

The parts 100% exist to do it, but it's not gonna be cheap or easy.


From what I have read getting the axles to stay in place when you add a lot of HP and brakes to these old 4x4's is a challenge. Be it a Defender, Jeep, whatever. One builder of old Powerwagons said if you add modern disc brakes you need to brace the stock axles. They were never designed for the stopping power modern brakes generate, so if you just bolt them onto the stock axles they can angle them like this / when you hit the brakes. When that happens you go off the road.