HD Shotgun?

[burbguy82]

LOL, are you dating it or defending the homestead with it?

Depends on the day. Ugly guns need love too.

I know someone with a Ruger 9mm PCC, very nice gun.

 

[demarpaint]

I have a 590A1 and love it. Very accurate out of the box. Mostly use it for bear protection. I’d suggest your friend take a decent couple day class once he gets his shotgun. Just like handguns and AR’s, training is key and there is more to running a shotgun than one would think.

Home defense can be broad too, is he worried about an intruder inside his home or at his door, or does he want something to protect a 5 acre property? Maybe an AR would suit him better?

Good info, if he pulls the trigger, no pun intended he'll be doing quite a bit of shooting.

 

[demarpaint]

riduculous

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1075695617
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1083777187

My bad, I screwed up. I have a 500 probably 30 years old which is what I had him fire several times, #8 Bird, 00 Buck, and Slugs. This is what he was quoted $700 on. 590A1 - 50768 Buying that online and shipping to an FFL will end up costing him more he said. As I mentioned I've been out of the gun buying loop for a long time, so this is a good refresher for me.

Thanks everyone keep the info coming...

 

[ChrisD46]

Helping a friend pick a shotgun for home defense. Narrowed it down to two Mossberg shotguns. Series 590A1 which comes in several different offerings. Both 20" barrels [he doesn't want the 18.5" version], one with Ghost Rings, the other with XG Ghost Rings. Lets hear it from the Shotgun experts, I like the XG Ghost Rings. Thanks.

Both are great choices in a pump - I believe the 500 and Maverick 88 come in 20” also. If semi - auto then the new Beretta 1301 Mod 2 should be on your short list .

 

[demarpaint]

Both are great choices in a pump - I believe the 500 and Maverick 88 come in 20” also. If semi - auto then the new Beretta 1301 Mod 2 should be on your short list .

We went out to dinner last night and spoke about it. He seems to be hooked on the Mossberg I linked earlier. I mentioned semi-auto to him, he prefers pump. I also offered to let him shoot one of my semi automatic shotguns if he wanted. He'll take me up on it, if/when we go to the range to test fire the 590A1 if he goes with it.

 

[4WD]

We went out to dinner last night and spoke about it. He seems to be hooked on the Mossberg I linked earlier. I mentioned semi-auto to him, he prefers pump. I also offered to let him shoot one of my semi automatic shotguns if he wanted. He'll take me up on it, if/when we go to the range to test fire the 590A1 if he goes with it.

Something to be said (yeah, to you intruder) about the sound of that first shell being “pumped” into the chamber

 

[demarpaint]

Something to be said (yeah, to you intruder) about the sound of that first shell being “pumped” into the chamber

They are intimidating for sure.

 

[AZjeff]

Something to be said (yeah, to you intruder) about the sound of that first shell being “pumped” into the chamber

Also something to be said for a defensive weapon with a round in the chamber ready to be used. Kinda like carrying a pistol with an empty chamber.

Also introduces the possibility that in the middle of the night, in the dark, waking up to the sound of an intruder a person could short stroke the pump and get a click no bang.

HD shotgun empty or charged is another thick or thin oil topic.

 

[LDB]

Something to be said (yeah, to you intruder) about the sound of that first shell being “pumped” into the chamber

Yes, it says "Hey Mr. Badguy this is just where I'm waiting for you and this is just what I'm waiting with so this is where you'll want to come in shooting." Yes, some will hear that and run. Some will hear that and know the exact hand you are holding. I'm in the do not show all your cards camp. YMWV

 

[LDB]

One good resource for researching to find convenient sources and/or best prices.

https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/PowerSearchNew.aspx

 

[Astro14]

Yes, it says "Hey Mr. Badguy this is just where I'm waiting for you and this is just what I'm waiting with so this is where you'll want to come in shooting." Yes, some will hear that and run. Some will hear that and know the exact hand you are holding. I'm in the do not show all your cards camp. YMWV

I am in your camp - no reason to show all your cards.

Further, some will not hear that, stress, making noise of their own, whatever.

So, the auditory “deterrence” is greatly over-rated because it is not reliable.

 

[burbguy82]

Something to be said (yeah, to you intruder) about the sound of that first shell being “pumped” into the chamber

Also something to be said for a defensive weapon with a round in the chamber ready to be used. Kinda like carrying a pistol with an empty chamber.

Also introduces the possibility that in the middle of the night, in the dark, waking up to the sound of an intruder a person could short stroke the pump and get a click no bang.

HD shotgun empty or charged is another thick or thin oil topic.

I am in your camp - no reason to show all your cards.

Further, some will not hear that, stress, making noise of their own, whatever.

So, the auditory “deterrence” is greatly over-rated because it is not reliable.

Most shotguns, like the Mossberg 500 and many others are not considered to be drop safe. My units SOP ( aswell as many others) has always been to carry the shotgun without a round in the chamber because of this. Especially on airborne operations.

The 590DS model, was double action only, designed for law enforecement to carry with a round in the tube, with the increase safety of a long double action pull=not potential for discharge without pulling the trigger.

@dnewton3 might have a bit of insight on this, carrying a shotgun in the patrol car? Likely Remington 870p?

Basically, the correct way to store the defensive shotgun is tube full or -1 to allow loading of a slug or other special round as nessessary, but without shell in the chamber. Which is why I like the 8 round M500/590

Some go slide unlocked some slide locked, depending on how you train. I can do either one.

So, to employ the weapon, the "rack" noise is just more than an audible warning...IMHO

 

[4WD]

Also something to be said for a defensive weapon with a round in the chamber ready to be used. Kinda like carrying a pistol with an empty chamber.

Also introduces the possibility that in the middle of the night, in the dark, waking up to the sound of an intruder a person could short stroke the pump and get a click no bang.

HD shotgun empty or charged is another thick or thin oil topic.

Then you get into safety on/off debate bcs you chambered etc …

 

[Ranger83]

If this is truly for home protection the shorter barrel is the way to go. The ease of movement in tight quarters and better spread is needed. The idea is to stop an intruder without penetrating Sheetrock walls and endangering a family member in another room.

And I always ask the 590 owners “What problem is solved by eight rounds of 00 buck that is not solved by five rounds?

If the terrible circumstance occurs where you have to use a firearm in self defense, it’s almost certainly going to be confiscated for some period of time.

Improving low-visibility use with a higher visibility sight makes a lot of sense to me, but spending a lot of money on furniture and capacity does not.

 

[Ranger83]

FWIW this is what we use for “semi-secure” storage.

https://www.shotlock.com/shotgun

 

[4WD]

Most shotguns, like the Mossberg 500 and many others are not considered to be drop safe. My units SOP ( aswell as many others) has always been to carry the shotgun without a round in the chamber because of this. Especially on airborne operations.

The 590DS model, was double action only, designed for law enforecement to carry with a round in the tube, with the increase safety of a long double action pull=not potential for discharge without pulling the trigger.

@dnewton3 might have a bit of insight on this, carrying a shotgun in the patrol car? Likely Remington 870p?

Basically, the correct way to store the defensive shotgun is tube full or -1 to allow loading of a slug or other special round as nessessary, but without shell in the chamber. Which is why I like the 8 round M500/590

Some go slide unlocked some slide locked, depending on how you train. I can do either one.

So, to employ the weapon, the "rack" noise is just more than an audible warning...IMHO

Agree. My uncle is gone bcs he fell on a wet porch in the rain when something was getting into the chicken coop …
I don’t chamber but a split second before launch … but as I said earlier - a pistol is primary HD for me - shotgun at the camp …
Odds are I have more time behind a shotgun than most here …

 

[burbguy82]

And I always ask the 590 owners “What problem is solved by eight rounds of 00 buck that is not solved by five rounds?

Ok, I will answer......
Above the 60% increase in rounds on tap, (which is alot), I do not really consider the m590 an 8 round tube, I consider it a 7 round tube.....like the m500 I consider it a 4 round tube. One of the greatest advantages of the pump tube, is the ability to change what type of ammo used onm the fly. I can go from 7, 00 buck in the tube, for soft targets close, to a slug for a 100 yard precision shot, hard target or just for increased accuracy at shorter distances....to a breaching round, with one simple step.

This is evident to someone who has used a shotgun in combat, whether it be police or military, or even in competition.

Recently, Mossberg, being the best in shotguns, introduced a 7 shot, 18.5" 590.....which is a great compromise between the length and weight and capacity.


One thing you will never hear someone complain about in a gunfight is "they had too much ammo"

capacity does not.

Due to the above, I disagree 100%.

 

[Ranger83]

Ok, I will answer......
Above the 60% increase in rounds on tap, (which is alot), I do not really consider the m590 an 8 round tube, I consider it a 7 round tube.....like the m500 I consider it a 4 round tube. One of the greatest advantages of the pump tube, is the ability to change what type of ammo used onm the fly. I can go from 7, 00 buck in the tube, for soft targets close, to a slug for a 100 yard precision shot, hard target or just for increased accuracy at shorter distances....to a breaching round, with one simple step.

This is evident to someone who has used a shotgun in combat, whether it be police or military, or even in competition.

Recently, Mossberg, being the best in shotguns, introduced a 7 shot, 18.5" 590.....which is a great compromise between the length and weight and capacity.

One thing you will never hear someone complain about in a gunfight is "they had too much ammo"

Due to the above, I disagree 100%.

Law enforcement and military scenarios have very little to do with defending your home. Furthermore, I question if there are any recorded instances of homeowners having to blast off a tube-load to defend their homes. Add to that presenting a firearm in your defense results in no shots fired in many thousands - possibly millions - of instances a year.

You are adding weight and swing weight to a firearm that will impact your ability to defend your family, for capability that might impact your ability to defend your family. In fairness, you can always buy a long tube shotgun and not load it out. And if you drill, the difference may be negligible.

Mossberg now has 79 different “Security” configurations, from a $275 Maverick to the $1,400 940 Pro Tactical. The top slide action is the $1,148 8+1 590A1 SPX - with a bayonet lug. In case you live in a really bad neighborhood. So if 7+1 is better than 4+1, is 8+1 even betterer?

https://www.mossberg.com/590a1-spx-9-shot-50771.html

 

[burbguy82]

Law enforcement and military scenarios have very little to do with defending your home.

The scenario yes, the tools, no.....which is what this thread is about. Tools not tactics.

Law enforcement and military scenarios have very little to do with defending your home. Furthermore, I question if there are any recorded instances of homeowners having to blast off a tube-load to defend their homes. Add to that presenting a firearm in your defense results in no shots fired in many thousands - possibly millions - of instances a year.

So go into the event with just 1 shell? Odds are you will be just fine? This conversation is really about the tool, not the tactics. That is another topic.

You are adding weight and swing weight to a firearm that will impact your ability to defend your family, for capability that might impact your ability to defend your family. In fairness, you can always buy a long tube shotgun and not load it out. And if you drill, the difference may be negligible.

Everything has advantages and disadvantages. Yes practice make the difference negligible...so one should practice. Again off topic. training will effect the use of either tool.

In case you live in a really bad neighborhood. So if 7+1 is better than 4+1, is 8+1 even betterer?

Again, all has to do with the shooter and the situation. But having 8 is better than 5, in any gunfight 100%. I used to carry a loadout with 12 mags on me and 3 in my bag.

Is it always optimal to have the longer length? No, but no tool is optimal in all circumstance either. A 5 round tube is lighter and faster for sure..... But it runs out 40% faster. Again, like everything there is a trade off.

 

[Ranger83]

///

Again, all has to do with the shooter and the situation. But having 8 is better than 5, in any gunfight 100%. I used to carry a loadout with 12 mags on me and 3 in my bag.

///

Can you identify a home defense event, anywhere in the U.S., ever, where a civilian home owner fired more than five shotgun rounds?