Having a gun on you....

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: wsar10
How many times within those 9 decades do you think a perp. tried to take there duty weapon ? MANY. How many times have they succeeded ? NEVER.


Turn that argument around: how many times do you think that a concealed weapon, one that nobody else knows is there, has been the target of a theft? I wager that the number is similarly low-to-none.

Originally Posted By: wsar10
If the guy would have been CC and a situation would arise, he would have had his weapon taken anyway....


Perhaps. In my opinion, however, this is beside the point.

The premise of the story is the criminal saw and then proceeded to steal the man's gun. In other words, by openly carrying his gun, he presented the target to the criminal. This is akin to leaving a purse or an expensive GPS on your dashboard and then being upset when it's stolen. I agree with you: you shouldn't have to concern yourself with that. But you do.

Sure...if the guy had better training, he could have prevented the theft. But the gun wasn't an incidental loss in the theft: it was the target of the theft. If it were concealed, he likely wouldn't have to defend himself at all.

And in my humble opinion, a day that you DON'T have to use the training that you have (or even don't have) is the best kind of day.

 

[bubbatime]

Open carry vs concealed carry arguments are always a hot debate.

I agree with Hokiefyd 100%. Having a gun properly concealed is a very strong tactical advantage. Why give away a tactical advantage by advertising to the world that you are armed? Just bad tactics. Why give the bad guy an opportunity to 1) see that you are armed 2) plan his response to your being armed 3) ambush you so that you don't have time to use that weapon against him?

Guns are best left concealed unless you are A) a uniform LEO or B) hiking/hunting in the woods.

 

[hatt]

99+ times out of a 100 a perp is going to stay well clear from anyone they see with a gun and move on to easier prey. CC increases your chances of being attacked. Prevention is better than tactics.

 

[spasm3]

I wonder about the legality of carrying a concealed gun while carrying an open gun? A concealed carry permit allows only 1 concealed pistol but can you do that with an open carry gun?

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
I wonder about the legality of carrying a concealed gun while carrying an open gun? A concealed carry permit allows only 1 concealed pistol but can you do that with an open carry gun?


Each jurisdiction is different. I can conceal carry 12 pistols down here if I want but open carry is strictly illegal here...

 

[dinkydau]

Oregon does permit concealed carry with proper back ground check and state issue of a license. Cost $50 for 4 years.
DD

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: wsar10


I guess you would have to be properly trained to understand......

Between my father and 2 of his brothers they have served almost 90 years (combined) as LEO's. How many times within those 9 decades do you think a perp. tried to take there duty weapon ? MANY. How many times have they succeeded ? NEVER.

If the guy would have been CC and a situation would arise, he would have had his weapon taken anyway....


With all due respect to your family LEO's and their service, training doesn't help you when the other guy already has the drop on you with their gun drawn and yours is still holstered. Once that happens unless you can talk yourself out of the situation, or you are the fastest draw in the history of the world, the situation ends only 2 ways. 1 you hand over the gun or 2 you die trying to do something stupid.

The guy who had his gun taken in this case did the only thing he could and stay alive. No amount of training, once the crook got the drop on him, is going to make a difference. His gun was still holstered and the crook had his out pointed at the guy. End of story. Oh sure you can talk about a TV/Movie fantasy scenario where the guy manages to disarm the crook through some exotic self defense method or some similar far fetched fantasy. Real world once the other guy has the gun pointed at you close up like that and yours is still in the holster you are done.

The guy who got robbed made the mistake of carrying openly in a bad area at 2AM. Those were his mistakes and were he could learn something. Once the situation unfolded as it did he made the only choice a smart person would make.

I would also point out that your LEO relatives go into every situation expecting it to be hostile, to have someone try and kill them, and yes even take their weapon. They are ready to react as a result in that one vital split second they have when they actually can do something. They also are going to see it coming which helps. Police have had their weapons taken before as well. Despite all their training that has happened.

I actually went through Police training/certification to carry a firearm as an armed Security Officer when I was younger. Handgun, shotgun, and also PR24. While it wasn't Police Academy training I have had more than most. If a guy got the drop on me with my gun holstered not much I am going to be able to do about it.

I think the guy who got robbed put himself into a bad situation and as I said that is where he could learn something. You seem to think once that happened, as it did, there were options besides turning the gun over to the crook. I am no coward but to me that is a bad attitude that would lead to you getting hurt or killed. JMHO.

 

[hatt]

Actually the real world indicates a proficient person could draw and fire an accessible gun(not necessarily open carry) before the perp could react. Action is faster than reaction. The perp has to process what's happening and decide what to do, you don't. If your weapon is buried somewhere in your underwear, for that tactical advantage, that won't be the case. You'll just have to comply and wait to see if the perp decides to execute you or let you go.

 

[wsar10]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
I wonder about the legality of carrying a concealed gun while carrying an open gun? A concealed carry permit allows only 1 concealed pistol but can you do that with an open carry gun?

Not in PA !!!

If you can fit it in, you can conceal it. When I go to the range I always have a CC, and the OC that I'm practicing with. In that scenario I prefer a little ankle biter ! usually my LCP in an ankle holster.
(I must disclose that I do not recommend an LCP unless you want to babysit the finish every other week)

 

[andrewg]

I have a concealed permit. I understand why some people feel the need to carry in the open though...as a deterrent. I know of a local jewelry store where ALL the employees are carrying openly. I'm sure other situations exist that may make it a good choice.

For me, even though I have a concealed permit.....I rarely carry. I probably should with all the crime in my area, but carrying almost makes me feel like if things are that bad...I should just move.

 

[Jarlaxle]

What the heck is an LCP?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
What the heck is an LCP?


Lightweight compact pistol.

 

[Jarlaxle]

A mouse gun...got it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I wouldn't call a 9mm (which are pretty small and concealable) a "mouse gun", especially with some of the +P defensive ammo available these days.

 

[wsar10]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I wouldn't call a 9mm (which are pretty small and concealable) a "mouse gun", especially with some of the +P defensive ammo available these days.


its a 380, and I would also call it a mouse gun !
IT serves a purpose though, for those times when its harder to conceal a larger weapon (shirt and tie etc. etc.)

The 9mm is the LC9, either way I would not recommend either.....I'm replacing my LCP with the GLOCK 42 after X-mas. I usually carry on GLOCK's and prefer my 30.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The young adult wasn't ready to use it so he shouldn't have had it on him. Reminds me of a Johnny Cash song. "Don't bring your guns to town.."

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
I have a concealed permit. I understand why some people feel the need to carry in the open though...as a deterrent. I know of a local jewelry store where ALL the employees are carrying openly. I'm sure other situations exist that may make it a good choice.


If you're working behind a counter in a store, I completely agree with OC. Most jewelry store and pawn shop employees around here OC at work. This is different than walking the street with any number of people around you, at all angles. When you're behind a counter, you have any threats at your 12:00, where you can quickly see and identify them. If you're OCing at the mall or downtown, you simply can't know where undisclosed threats are.

Both OC and CC (with a permit) are legal in North Carolina. OC is very rare, and there are a lot of good reasons for that. Everyone I know who carries, including a number of LEOs when off-duty, does so concealed.

 

[Blaze]

If you are going to open carry how about getting a holster that is designed so your weapon cannot be so easily "retrieved" by an assault etc....they do make them.

 

[bubbatime]

When someone talks about an "LCP" they are not talking generally about a class of small pistols. They are specifically talking about the Ruger LCP, which is probably the most popular small pocket pistol in the country.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Yep, if you are out walking around in a downtown area at 2am, what are you trying to prove anyway? Most likely you are going to be in the headline news , love the banana.

Is there a law that says you shouldn't be out after dark? Common sense is lacking these days though.