Have you driven a Ford lately?

Got a ‘16 Explorer, standard 3.5L. Water pump replaced at 40k because it was leaking. The dealer said they replaced the pump and changed oil and filter. Got home, had my Wix filter on it so had to bring it back to get the oil and filter changed like they said they did. 3 recalls so far if I remember correctly. GPS started acting up about a month ago and will intermittently reboot/disconnect and say no signal found. It has a small coolant leak somewhere as I have to add a few ounces to the reservoir every winter when the heat is used. Pressure tested multiple times and can’t figure out where the coolant is going. Had to replace the front struts as the left was rubbing on turns at 50k miles. It currently has less than 65k miles on it and is more than likely my last Ford.
 
My perception, unfortunately, is that virtually every manufacturer has taken a dive in quality and durability in the past 10 years. It's one thing to complain about major things going wrong with a car that is 12+ years old and has 150,000+ miles. It's a different thing to have the same kind of failure in a car that's only 2 years old with 25,000 miles, but I'm hearing a lot of that now.
 
I had pretty hit or miss luck with Ford. I doubt I'll buy another. No manufacturer is perfect but after 100+ years of building cars they truly should be among the best in the world and I think they miss that mark.
 
Got a ‘16 Explorer, standard 3.5L. Water pump replaced at 40k because it was leaking. The dealer said they replaced the pump and changed oil and filter. Got home, had my Wix filter on it so had to bring it back to get the oil and filter changed like they said they did. 3 recalls so far if I remember correctly. ..... It has a small coolant leak somewhere as I have to add a few ounces to the reservoir every winter when the heat is used. Pressure tested multiple times and can’t figure out where the coolant is going.
I STRONGLY encourage you to get a couple UOAs and make sure the coolant is not showing up in the oil sump. If the water pump was replaced, they may have done a poor job. Or, (given they lied about changing the oil at the time) maybe they didn't do the job at all ???
 
I feel like Ford has said "they're working on quality" for the last 45 years.

I think there was a time not so long ago when they really were among the best domestic vehicles.
But as GM and Ford have come down in quality the former quality black sheep Chrysler/Dodge/Ram has come up in quality.
So now the big 3 are about the same.
 
I STRONGLY encourage you to get a couple UOAs and make sure the coolant is not showing up in the oil sump. If the water pump was replaced, they may have done a poor job. Or, (given they lied about changing the oil at the time) maybe they didn't do the job at all ???

No coolant in the oil. It was consuming a lot of coolant quickly before they replaced it. Now it’s just when the heat is used so I have to believe it’s a hose/clamp/heater core issue as I haven’t seen a drop anywhere. You can catch a faint whiff of it if you pop the hood when the motor is hot in the winter. Wondering if it might not be a faulty coolant cap either. Only reason I had the dealer do it was because it was under warranty. Had my shop check it twice and they can’t find anything so who knows.
 
I am a Ford fanatic; have been all my life. But I will not make excuses where they clearly are failing; even the Ford CEO has publically admitted they are doing a horrible job. They are, sadly, not alone; Ford is just the worst, at least currently.


I worked in manufacturing for much of my adult career; 16 years at Ford in fact. I believe this decline in quality is a two-fold issue:

- Designs are rushed to market too quickly because of the "must keep up with the Jones's" mentality. As soon as any new tech or feature hits the market, every manufacturer races to copy or out-do that recent release. Some of this is due to the constant onslaught of YT reviews where dozens of people either praise or pan a brand or feature and the public sees this shiny new thing and goes ga-ga over it. The other part of this problem comes from changing gov mandates that make it almost impossible to foresee a problem as the tech is necessary to keep up with the mandates. As one example, GDI was the savior of all, until they realized that carbon build-up on the intake valves is a real thing, and now they have to combine it with PFI, which still does not stop the problem, but pushes it far enough down the road that the original owner is unlikely to have to deal with it, or OEM pay for valve cleaning under warranty.
So, design implementation rates are causing quality to suffer because they are not always well researched and tested prior to release.

- Labor issues, specifically since CVD19 ... Labor turnover is always a problem in manufacturing, but since 2019 it's now an even bigger issue. How big? Well, before CVD19 (prior to 2019) the daily absenteeism in the Indianapolis manufacturing market was around 25%. TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT of the daily workforce didn't show up to work. After 2019, that went up even higher !!!!!!!! It is VERY DIFFICULT, IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE to "make" stuff (produce things on an assembly line or run complex machines) when more than one-quarter of your people done't come to work on any given day. This means the folks who DO show up, often end up on jobs they've never done before, or are marginally familiar with at best. Management will literally move the workforce around the plant to hit the most important daily product draws for shipment. People are moved constantly from job to job. Some people do care, and try their best. Others get ticked-off and just "phone in" their efforts, often ignoring defects generated by themselves and others while "making" the products. Daily labor absenteeism is a MAJOR problem and has been for over a decade now. Unless you've worked in this type environment, it's difficult to conceive how bad it is, and the effects it causes.
So, customer demand rates are rising while manpower supply is dwindling, causing people to be over-taxed and also unfamiliar with the jobs of producing goods.


I am currently considering buying a new luxury car, and Lincoln is not on my short list simply because I don't believe my $60k will be well spent at Lincoln for the very reason of poor quality. In fact, though I do believe that Lexus and Acura are likely better quality choices in the luxury market I'm considering, even they have the same challenges currently (though they may be "better" at dealing with the issues). And so, I am also strongly considering buying a used luxury car from the "pre-CVD" time (prior to early 2019).
 
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I think there was a time not so long ago when they really were among the best domestic vehicles.
But as GM and Ford have come down in quality the former quality black sheep Chrysler/Dodge/Ram has come up in quality.
So now the big 3 are about the same.
Not sure about this, my 2004 ram 3500 Cummins went close to 275000 miles with only maintenance. Ball joints every 60000 miles though.
04 grand Cherokee limited went 240000 miles over 12 years. Needed a power steering pump, alternator and rear axle seal replaced and the internal sensor pack in the trans. All repairs were after a 160000 miles.
15 wrangler. Just replaced the heater coil at 132000 miles.
My 16 ram 1500 just turned 60000 miles. Only maintenance thus far.
16 Cherokee limited. Had one recall. Just routine maintenance so far at 123000 miles.
All were bought new. Pretty happy with Chrysler products.
 
By definition, management is responsible for corporation results and ongoing success.
I admire CEO Farley for speaking his truth; let's see what he and his company do about quality issues.

I also have to wonder how long Ford fans (or any car maker fans) continue to support them if their products do not improve. It seems people's minds are made up, no matter what.

Finally, does Ford have the resources to right the ship? Where will the money come from? Cash from operations 2022 is stiing at a little over 4%.
 
I'm a fanboy, have a 98 F150, 04 Escape and 13GT500 and all have been extremely reliable. The prices for new replacements is something I'm just not going to do though. I see people with 100K F150s parked in front of 30K houses, don't know where some folks priorities are.
 
04 grand Cherokee limited went 240000 miles over 12 years. Needed a power steering pump, alternator and rear axle seal replaced and the internal sensor pack in the trans. All repairs were after a 160000 miles.
Wouldn't you say that was on the upper limit of ok? I mean, I get it, it was after 160k and 8yr, not a bad run really, nothing lasts forever, but to me, as an utter appliance driver, I would find myself telling myself "it's cheaper than a car payment". Which much of the general public won't.
 
So far no issues that seem to get a lot of attention on the forum have stricken my Hybrid Maverick. There are recalls but so far mine has been trouble free, and is a quite remarkable truck for $27K with lots of features. By now my 2018 F-150 had already been back 3 times for recalls in the first 8 months.
 
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I love my Fords I’d buy a used one. Never a new one though. My Escape has 202,000 on it and is leaking oil pretty much out of every gasket I just don’t feel like pulling the engine to replace them. I done the valve covers which helped a lot. That was done around 165,000. Actually when I began in the automotive industry I wanted to be a Ford tech but realized how hard they were to work on and their designs are crap so I chose Toyota then got tired of that and now do Subaru though I’m helping in Toyota for temporary. Anything is better than working on a modern Ford or Chevy. I’m sad to see their quality has declined so much. And they don’t want to make any cars anymore just mostly trucks. Me and my dad love our Ford Econoline the 1994 we agree it’s the best vehicle we have owned. It still has original water pump, alternator, starter, distributor and many other things that would just go bad rather quickly now. The only issue we have now is the very high idle which I have diagnosed as the PCM and it took awhile to diagnose because there is no clear answer to where the computer was so I tested the computer last because I had to find it lol. If I had to buy a new car today it would be between two brands that’s Subaru or Mitsubishi. They have the best warranty support and the best quality modern vehicles. Two brands which I never even considered before I started working on cars. Dealing with Ford warranty support is almost as bad as Toyota. But Ford will do more for you than Toyota will but any manufacturer would. I can’t tell you how many old stock Fords we sent to auction this month and last month that just never sold from 2021 and some 2022 models. Particularly the Edge it’s our least selling Ford unit.
 
The cost is the only constant. They have figured that out ahead of longevity, reliability and dealer satisfaction. If your only concern is ‘will this cost me more?’ Sleep well. You won’t be disappointed.
 
The “see what I mean - you cannot trust the engineers” comments are interesting… I think the point is more or less not trusting people on the internet over the engineers.
I don't think it has anything to do with engineers specifically, it has to do with bean counters and marketing, and only allowing engineering that is "good enough".
 
30 years from now we will be talking about how they dont make them like they did and how we got 200-300k out of out 2022 fords. Lol
 
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