Have to pay to use Windows 11?

Bill7 said:
I also like that I never have to upgrade hardware due to some new version of something,
and you get lifetime free updates. Also, everything is free.

The open source OS's come in security hardened versions, that make them incredibly secure.
Open source OS's don't require anti-virus software. The build-in firewall is very secure.
But if you are a security fanatic like I am, you can download free packages that do HIPS (Host Intrusion Prevention).
Click to expand...
Plumb Bob said:
Well said. I also love Linux/BSD, but the World's business desktops run on Windows and Microsoft Office. Among the many reasons for that, simplicity is a major factor. It just works.

Edit: This post was typed from Rocky Linux :)
Click to expand...
Amusingly, Rocky, which is the free version of the RHEL code, does indeed depreciate hardware (or rather Redhat does). I have an old Lenovo Thinkserver T430 that has Windows Server 2019 on it that I haven't retired yet and had to spin up a couple of VM's for some testing for a staff member, so I set them up on it. Rocky 10 wouldn't run on it, the CPU had been depreciated, 9 runs, and gives you the CPU depreciated warning.

Was playing around with some older HP mini's, have a ProDesk 600 G1 here, which is about 2013 vintage, with an i5. Decided to toss Rocky 10 on it, got a warning that the e1000 ethernet is now no longer being maintained and will be dropped in the future, and that's a pretty prolific chipset :oops:
 
OVERKILL said:
Amusingly, Rocky, which is the free version of the RHEL code, does indeed depreciate hardware (or rather Redhat does). I have an old Lenovo Thinkserver T430 that has Windows Server 2019 on it that I haven't retired yet and had to spin up a couple of VM's for some testing for a staff member, so I set them up on it. Rocky 10 wouldn't run on it, the CPU had been depreciated, 9 runs, and gives you the CPU depreciated warning.

Was playing around with some older HP mini's, have a ProDesk 600 G1 here, which is about 2013 vintage, with an i5. Decided to toss Rocky 10 on it, got a warning that the e1000 ethernet is now no longer being maintained and will be dropped in the future, and that's a pretty prolific chipset :oops:
Click to expand...
I got a message saying my Ryzen 2700X will be deprecated in the next release. :(

I love Rocky being 1:1 RHEL. but not sure how long they'll get away using the "loophole". Alma seems like the better bet for enterprise in the long run; my wild guess.
 
Last edited:
OVERKILL said:
Amusingly, Rocky, which is the free version of the RHEL code, does indeed depreciate hardware (or rather Redhat does). I have an old Lenovo Thinkserver T430 that has Windows Server 2019 on it that I haven't retired yet and had to spin up a couple of VM's for some testing for a staff member, so I set them up on it. Rocky 10 wouldn't run on it, the CPU had been depreciated, 9 runs, and gives you the CPU depreciated warning.

Was playing around with some older HP mini's, have a ProDesk 600 G1 here, which is about 2013 vintage, with an i5. Decided to toss Rocky 10 on it, got a warning that the e1000 ethernet is now no longer being maintained and will be dropped in the future, and that's a pretty prolific chipset :oops:
Click to expand...
Fedora is based on RHEL code and is very closely tied with RedHat.
Linus Torvalds said he uses Fedora for his personal machines.
He is paid 10 million a year by Red Hat to manage all changes to the Linux kernel.

I don't think the Fedora's code base deprecates older CPU's.
Even gcc -march=native supports some very old Pentium cpu architectures.
You might want to try Fedora on that old server CPU to see if it supports it.
 
Bill7 said:
Fedora is based on RHEL code and is very closely tied with RedHat.
Linus Torvalds said he uses Fedora for his personal machines.
He is paid 10 million a year by Red Hat to manage all changes to the Linux kernel.

I don't think the Fedora's code base deprecates older CPU's.
Even gcc -march=native supports some very old Pentium cpu architectures.
You might want to try Fedora on that old server CPU to see if it supports it.
Click to expand...
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DeprecateLegacyBIOS

1770649554431.webp


But Fedora is really a desktop-oriented OS, running more cutting-edge and considerably less vetted (and faster turnover) code. It's not something you'd want to run a server on, that's why RHEL/CentOS/Rocky exist(ed).

A lot of this depreciation happens with the kernel itself (like the e1000 support).

I just think it's a bit funny that this server will run Windows Server 2019 without issue, but can't run RHEL/Rocky 10.
 
Bill7 said:
Fedora is based on RHEL code and is very closely tied with RedHat.
Linus Torvalds said he uses Fedora for his personal machines.
He is paid 10 million a year by Red Hat to manage all changes to the Linux kernel.

I don't think the Fedora's code base deprecates older CPU's.
Even gcc -march=native supports some very old Pentium cpu architectures.
You might want to try Fedora on that old server CPU to see if it supports it.
Click to expand...
Linus is paid by the Linux Foundation, not Red Hat. Estimates are ~1.5 million/year.

And it's probably just semantics but Red Hat is technically based on Fedora code. Fedora is the Red Hat-supported, community-run distro that tests out new technologies. Once stable, Red Hat will pick a Fedora release to use as their base and begin the rigorous process of testing. By the time it's ready, the Fedora version is probably N+4 with all sorts of fancy-pants, whiz-bang, unstable novelties.

Fedora is awfully bleeding-edge - under no circumstances would I use it as a server - and probably drops old libraries sooner than a distro that is practically purpose built for legacy hardware and being overall so stable it's boring: Debian. If you have old hardware, Debian's probably your best fit.
 
Plumb Bob said:
I got a message saying my Ryzen 2700X will be deprecated in the next release. :(

I love Rocky being 1:1 RHEL. but not sure how long they'll get away using the "loophole". Alma seems like the better bet for enterprise in the long run; my wild guess.
Click to expand...
Just want to add onto this:

So, a PACS vendor I deal with actively recommends Rocky and uses it in their own builds over RHEL due to the elimination of the subscription costs. They have their own package repositories for their products that are added to the stock ones.

I ran into this when I was provisioning two new PACS servers and the vendor got confused when I started talking about buying the necessary RHEL licenses (as they were RHEL only when the servers that are being replaced were commissioned) as they assumed I'd be using Rocky. So, that was a last minute pivot and the boxes have Rocky on them now.

That said, you can convert RHEL to Rocky and Rocky to RHEL, so in the event that something does happen, you'd be able to pivot.
 
OVERKILL said:
Just want to add onto this:

So, a PACS vendor I deal with actively recommends Rocky and uses it in their own builds over RHEL due to the elimination of the subscription costs. They have their own package repositories for their products that are added to the stock ones.

I ran into this when I was provisioning two new PACS servers and the vendor got confused when I started talking about buying the necessary RHEL licenses (as they were RHEL only when the servers that are being replaced were commissioned) as they assumed I'd be using Rocky. So, that was a last minute pivot and the boxes have Rocky on them now.

That said, you can convert RHEL to Rocky and Rocky to RHEL, so in the event that something does happen, you'd be able to pivot.
Click to expand...

Man....can you explain that in Windows terms? LOL
 
Pew said:
Man....can you explain that in Windows terms? LOL
Click to expand...
Redhat (and other vendors) get around the OpenSource restriction on not charging money for software by instead charging money for access to updates/support. And, for Redhat, this cost is significant. This is an annual fee you pay, that varies by product and age of product. Extended support is yet ANOTHER cost on top of the initial support, for products that are long in the tooth and no longer within the current product range lifecycle.

So, Fedora is, as @uc50ic4more noted, basically the "development" arm of the Redhat code. This is where everything that's bleeding edge gets dumped and basically vetted by end users. This is forked periodically into the Enterprise product (Redhat Enterprise Linux), where code is matured and heavily vetted before it gets pushed as a package or package update. These releases eventually become very static after a few years and you get very few updates because of the disruption that is possible by messing with the mature versions. For example, the old RHEL servers I'm retiring are running Redhat 6, and there are no updates, and haven't been for years.

A fresh install of RHEL 8 wouldn't have many, if any, updates. And would get very few in the future.

CentOS used to be the "free" version of the RHEL product. It came with no support, but you got all the mature RHEL packages, so the exact same product, just free.

However, CentOS, in that iteration, is dead now.

Rocky is a riff off that same approach, started with RHEL 7 I believe, it's the exact same code, just rebranded as Rocky and so is a true 1:1 replacement for RHEL, without the subscription.
 
rijndael said:
FWIW: I think we paid $800 / Yr / Server for RHEL support.
Click to expand...
Yeah, just depends on the product. OpenShift Platform Plus w/OpenShift Data Foundation Advanced is around $50K CDN for up to 128 cores per server per year. RHEL Server for virtual datacentres w/Satellite is about $6K CDN, Server Premium is about $2K (Standard is a bit over $1K) and, as I mentioned, if you are running an old version that needs extended support, it's another $1K.

All the prices are shown on the CDW site:
1770676145679.webp
 
Ours were all VM based installs. Everything we do is on top of an ESX. It’s probably approaching 10K VMs, so I’m sure volume discounts were involved too.
 
OVERKILL said:
Redhat (and other vendors) get around the OpenSource restriction on not charging money for software by instead charging money for access to updates/support. And, for Redhat, this cost is significant. This is an annual fee you pay, that varies by product and age of product. Extended support is yet ANOTHER cost on top of the initial support, for products that are long in the tooth and no longer within the current product range lifecycle.

So, Fedora is, as @uc50ic4more noted, basically the "development" arm of the Redhat code. This is where everything that's bleeding edge gets dumped and basically vetted by end users. This is forked periodically into the Enterprise product (Redhat Enterprise Linux), where code is matured and heavily vetted before it gets pushed as a package or package update. These releases eventually become very static after a few years and you get very few updates because of the disruption that is possible by messing with the mature versions. For example, the old RHEL servers I'm retiring are running Redhat 6, and there are no updates, and haven't been for years.

A fresh install of RHEL 8 wouldn't have many, if any, updates. And would get very few in the future.

CentOS used to be the "free" version of the RHEL product. It came with no support, but you got all the mature RHEL packages, so the exact same product, just free.

However, CentOS, in that iteration, is dead now.

Rocky is a riff off that same approach, started with RHEL 7 I believe, it's the exact same code, just rebranded as Rocky and so is a true 1:1 replacement for RHEL, without the subscription.
Click to expand...

Ah okay thanks! That sounds exactly how Proxmox has their Enterprise (paid) vs Community (free) setup.
 
OVERKILL said:
Just want to add onto this:

So, a PACS vendor I deal with actively recommends Rocky and uses it in their own builds over RHEL due to the elimination of the subscription costs. They have their own package repositories for their products that are added to the stock ones.

I ran into this when I was provisioning two new PACS servers and the vendor got confused when I started talking about buying the necessary RHEL licenses (as they were RHEL only when the servers that are being replaced were commissioned) as they assumed I'd be using Rocky. So, that was a last minute pivot and the boxes have Rocky on them now.

That said, you can convert RHEL to Rocky and Rocky to RHEL, so in the event that something does happen, you'd be able to pivot.
Click to expand...
Not saying those vendors are wrong, it saves a buck by using Rocky. My comment was in reference to the two strategies used by RL and Alma. Though it is completely legal, albeit "goofy", what Greg and others are doing, per GPL, there are legal ways for IBM to drop the hammer on cloud RHEL vendors and make it difficult to exploit the loophole to get the sources ("While we continuously explore other options, the aforementioned approaches are subject to change.")

I really doubt we'll see it in the foreseable future; then again from a long term business point of view, I would bet on Alma's approach --get the sources from CentOS Stream and Fedora and make your product binary compatible with the big dawg.

In the meantime, I'll keep using Rocky :)

6.12.0-124.31.1.el10_1.x86_64
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Number_35
New Computer To Run Windows 11 - Recommendations On MS Office Packages?
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
Donald
G
One Drive captured and stored my data without having an account (speculation)
2 3
Replies
42
Views
1K
redhat
henni
Windows 11 End of Life
Replies
9
Views
987
henni
D
Project BedroomGPT
Replies
6
Views
545
Brons2
J
Do you have an order or build sheet for any of your vehicles?
2 3 4
Replies
62
Views
3K
Jcp123
Back
Top Bottom