GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
Concur, that was the #1 reason to buy solar in the first post of this thread.
Hasty assessment---three reasons a homeowner should buy solar panels for their home
- Thread starter GON
- Start date
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
I read hundreds of stories of people that have dug $50k USD plus holes with their solar contract, where the vendor is BK, the roof is damaged, anf the system does not deliver the energy the (tin man) salesperson sold to the homeowner.
I read dozen of stories where the homeowner signed the solar contract, financed the sale through a lender promoted by the solar company. The solar company went BK, before the solar was installed, and the homeowner is still on the hook for a $50k USD loan, which the lender placed a lien on the home which has priority even over the homeowner's first mortgage. The solar lien prevented some homeowners from getting a second mortgage to get some critical work done on their home, such as a replacement roof.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Can anyone anywhere get that same NEM deal today? If not it's nice for you but irrelevant now.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
I read hundreds of stories of people that have dug $50k USD plus holes with their solar contract, where the vendor is BK, the roof is damaged, ant the system does not deliver the energy the (tin man) salesperson sold to the homeowner.
I read dozen of stories where the homeowner signed the solar contract, financed the sale through a lender promoted by the solar company. The solar company went BK, before the solar was installed, and the homeowner is still on the hook for a $50k USD loan, which the lender placed a lien on the home which has priority even over the homeowner's first mortgage. jd the lien prevented some homeowners from getting a second mortgage from getting some criti
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
I am on a flight, when I get a moment I will show you a new listing for a single family home in Casa Grande, AZ, where the Buyer of the home has to assume IIRC $40 k USD solar loan. The home I am contracted to buy I am assuming a $47k USD solar loan, on a two year old system, and the installer went BK earlier this year.
In addition, the loans are not part of the sales price of the home, so the Buyer is essentially paying $40k+ USD more for the home, but this does not appear in the price of the home even more so, to assume these solar loans the underwriting criteria is secret. Can't make this stuff up.
After researching solar panels I've read it is best to maximize the efficiency of the home first. Since hot water heating is usually the second biggest user of energy I purchased a hybrid water heater at Home Depot. It saves me about $30 a month and almost $50 a month in the summer, even with the A/C is running the most. So it counteracts my climbing electric bill in the summer. It's paid for itself in four years with a $300 federal tax credit. I even installed it myself using copper pipe.
Is it too late to modify your contract that the seller pays off the solar loan at closing? Unless this house is significantly underpriced or super desirable to you, I wouldn’t take that loan over.
My guess is maybe they are underwater between their current mortgage and the solar loan.
My guess is maybe they are underwater between their current mortgage and the solar loan.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
Yes, it is to late. It makes perfect sense to not buy this home because of the solar contract. But we have not been able to find another home that matches for us, so we are taking the loss. In a different housing market, we likely would not have signed the sales contract.
The housing market is still super tight. On a MACRO basis, the increase in single family home inventory are homes that are undersiable at the listing price. My observations are good homes often contract in under 48 hours.
The Sellers are not underwater. They purchased the home about three years ago, and the sales price we agreed to is either $20k USD or $34k USD above what they paid for the home. Historical research shows two different sales prices for when they purchased the home, I am not sure which one is accurate. Of course, the sellers are paying a broker's commission, so they likely will not be walking away with a significant profit.
When I did the deep research on solar, the thought was to run away. I was distressed on the entire solar situation, the more I researched the uglier I discovered solar to be.
We don't have an alternate place to live, so we are sucking up the joke of a $47k USD solar loan. This was the only home we found that worked for us, and we are essentially homeless (we are currently living in a VRBO). So, the old saying still rings true "sometimes one has to lose to win".
That sounds way off base, but we cant tell until he shows us whats actually on his roof - could be great, could be super overpriced junk and everything in between.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
Summing up the load from the graph, it "looks like" the house uses about 21MWH a year.
Im scratching out the solar but it looks like its sized to cover around 1-1.
(The doc says you made 1746 in one month so that x 12 is 20.9 - but it wont produce lineally so we can only extrapolate what we have. )
Ive got to try to figure out what your normalized price per KWH is. Looks like 16 cents...need to noodle a bit.
Im scratching out the solar but it looks like its sized to cover around 1-1.
(The doc says you made 1746 in one month so that x 12 is 20.9 - but it wont produce lineally so we can only extrapolate what we have. )
Ive got to try to figure out what your normalized price per KWH is. Looks like 16 cents...need to noodle a bit.
What do people feel is the ROI time to make solar "affordable". 5 years, 10 years, 20 years?
You also need to factor in the time value of money, whether your financing or forgoing interest earned if paying in full.
A lot of things got skewed after 15 years of ZIRP.
You also need to factor in the time value of money, whether your financing or forgoing interest earned if paying in full.
A lot of things got skewed after 15 years of ZIRP.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
It was before, and I assume the Seller who earned the credit pocketed the credit than pay down the loan. The entire tax credit appears to be fraught for fake numbers/ fraud.
I suspect if the Seller of the home paid cash for the system, the solar would have sold for $20k +/- USD. Which would have given the Seller a $6.6k USD tax credit.
Instead, here is what I think happened (pure rough speculation):
-$50k USD Selling price
-Buyer of the solar (Seller of the home) received a $17k USD tax credit
-Solar company who is in partnership with the lender receives $30k USD payment from the lender for the payment
-Lender charges a (hidden) $20k load origination fee for the loan
-Buyer of the solar gets a "fake 1.99% interest rate on $50k USD loan, but actually the cash price on the solar was $20k USD< so the actual interest rate is around eight percent.
- loan is for 20 years, so the interest is $23k USD
All a dirty con. Both the buyer of the solar and the US taxpayer have injustice committed against them.
And not to forget, the seller of the solar went BK, so no warranty on what they sold. I suspect the leadership of the solar organization goes BK every 18+/- months, and simply opens up a new solar company. The lender in this transaction gets a lien on the property, and the lien trumps even the 1st mortgage holder in rights. So, the lender is sitting nice reguardless if the solar works, or even if the solar laon ever gets paid. They will get a handsome reward one way or another.
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I never paid much attention to the lease/ loans scheme but worked off what I could manage out of pocket.
Sounds like a total scam.
Although in you case you wont ever get any labor, your parts should have their own warranties and guarantees -hopefully you've got good stuff vs rubber dog crap from hong kong.
Place I worked with did a dozen or so of my employees systems and has been around about 20 years in the form of a construction company with a solar speciality.
They know if they drop the ball I'll see them at the grocery store restaurant over and over....
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
Here is the pitch to the buyer of the solar:
Buyer of the solar puts no money down, your interest rate will be 1.99%, your monthly electric bill will by zero, and the U.S. government will send you a check for $17k USD for doing this. Packaged like that it sounds like a no brainer.
Except I suspect 99% of systems sold in packages like this are from very low-end components, the install is not done properly (reducing the ability to exploit the sun), the roof has significant unforeseen damage, and when that damage is discovered, the solar installer is BK, and that damage along can be five figures.
Drug addicts, convicted felons, gamblers, etc are not knocking on doors, living in a different motel every week, to sell this stuff because they are offering a rock-solid product at a reasonable price. They are selling a margin at best product, at 200-300 percent more than a homeowner should pay for the solar, receiving likely a marginal efficiency solar system, and have significant unseen damage the roof, that when discovered will be very pricey to fix,
If you care to share - who actually holds the note for this scam? A bank, some special finance company, was it collateralized into a bond and your just paying a processor?
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
SCM,
I have posted the lender on BITOG prior, Bay Area based lender Mosiac Solar.
Spend 90 minutes reading all 200+ reviews and you will get quite an education on solar for single family homes. Please note I read many more reviews from dozens of other sources, the pattern stayed the same, regardless of who the lender was.
And to my surprise, I was approved to assume the solar loan. Most are not approved, and the lender will not release the assumption underwriting criteria. I was prepared to bring an additional $47k USD to the closing to pay off the solar. I simply came to the decision that we needed a home, this was the only home we found after an extensive nationwide search, so I was willing to overpay $47k USD for the home. I don't like to overpay- but had no other feasible course of action. And although we are supposed to close late next month, there are numerous factors that can still cause the sale not to go through.
https://www.energysage.com/supplier/3247/mosaic/
https://www.yelp.com/biz/mosaic-oak...view&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com
This is the email I received from Mosaic after applying to assume the loan. Note Mosaic will not allow you to even apply to assume the loan without their pre-approval to even apply- no link to apply on their website:
GON,
We've got great news - you've been prequalified for financing through Mosaic for up to $100,000.00.
What to expect:
Next, Mosaic Loan Transfers will be sending you a Home Improvement Agreement (the installation contract between you and Mosaic Loan Transfers) and we will be sending you the loan agreement (the financing contract between you and the lender). When you receive these documents, please go over them carefully because they include information regarding certain financing conditions, loan disbursements, the ongoing servicing of your loan and other important loan information.
Please note:
While you've been prequalified for up to $100,000.00, the actual amount of your loan will be the lesser of the total price as listed in your Home Improvement Agreement (minus any co-payment paid to Mosaic Loan Transfers) and the up to loan amount.
This prequalification approval is valid for 60 days from when we performed our initial credit check. You must sign and submit a complete loan application by September 17, 2024 in order for this approval to remain valid. Once you have submitted a complete loan application, we will automatically extend your approval to 180 days. If you do not submit a complete loan application within the initial approval window, you will have to submit a new prequalification request should you wish to proceed with financing through Mosaic.
Towards a brighter future,
Mosaic Customer Support
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