Hasty assessment---three reasons a homeowner should buy solar panels for their home

[GON]

At 12MW a year to run the house and irrigation, at .53 Per KWH the bill would be 6K+ or approximately 530 a month if divided evenly.

That bill will only ever rise and never go down. This would be unaffordable in retirement.

For a one time installed cost of about 20K I can get an ROI in a bit over 3 year and make that bill go away entirely for about 20 years.

For me it's all about ROI and zero to do with bragging about anything.
The green I care about most is the monthly savings.

Let's assume the solar company goes bankrupt months after installing, and the system fails, which is not uncommon. Next, let's assume the installers damaged your roof, but the damage is not visible, again not uncommon.

Not sure what is costs to remove solar, repair a rook, and replace the solar, but I would guess not cheap in California.

Please forgive me- your numbers suggest a fantasy best case scenario- not real life after numerous likely results of a solar purchase and installed are factored in.

 

[Passport1]

If your property is large enough why can't the panels be mounted on a support like a billboard? It could even be programmed to be heliotropic to capture more sunlight. The power cable to the house from the remotely mounted panels could allow the panels to be out in a field somewhere.

 

[GON]

If your property is large enough why can't the panels be mounted on a support like a billboard? It could even be programmed to be heliotropic to capture more sunlight. The powercable to the house from the remotely mounted panels could allow the panels to be out in a field somewhere.

I am definitely a huge proponent of ground mounted panels if one wants to go solar. Obviously, one must have the right location and ample space. Some of the arguments against ground based is the cost to run the lines from the solar panel to the house, and risk of rodents chewing on the cables from the panels to the house.

I found the cost to run the cable to be holistically minimal, when compared to the cost/ exposer of roof damage, roof maintenance, and service complexities troubleshooting and repairing panels on a sloped roof.

 

[Sumboodie]

View attachment 231397

Holy CRAP. I'm assuming some sort of business?

At home, usually we use around 300-350 kwhr a month. And I've got a hobby shop... welder, plasma, some machine tools, big air compressor, etc.

 

[Sumboodie]

I had panels I put up at my old place. Worked well, had no power bill for about 4-5 months a year.

BUT that was a savings of maybe $600 a year... on a setup that was about $12k... so 20 years to break even.

 

[wpod]

My #4 - I can do basic arithmetic.

View attachment 231462

Our town gets 330+ days of sunshine annually.
Electricity costs are some of the highest in the nation.
Gasoline costs are some of the highest in the nation.
I run the AC far more because I am retired and home more of the time.
I got a great deal on the solar project, which included a new roof.
I hate PG&E (electric company).
I now pay $10 to $20 per month (or less), including powering the EV due to NEM2.

If I had it to do over again I would have used Sunrun (bigger company). Infinity Solar is now out of business. I believe NEM3 killed the solar business around here.

What are the costs of the solar panels? About 10 years ago The cost to do solar with what I needed was $25,000.00 That was in palo cedro Calif, I had 3 bids

 

[GON]

Our average monthly electric bill was $85 last year. For us there's no financial reason that makes sense.

#4- virtue signaling if the solar panels are mounted on the front of the house. Kills the curb appeal but worth it.

Mr. GON, knowing your preference for challenged properties at a discount, if you're underwater on the solar loan is this property in the Rio Grande flood zone backed up to the border fence near El Paso or something similar to make it a value proposition?

AZJ,

Yes, the value proposition is we like the house. The second bathroom is a shower instead of a tub, with no shower lip. The floors are the same throughout the house. The house has a small RV like pad so I can store a trailer/ RV. House is five years old. And most critical- the house has an assumable 2.25% mortgage.

The Seller owes $47k USD on the solar, which the Seller purchased two years ago. The Solar seller/installer/warrantier went out of business earlier this year. Do lots if reading, a very common business model of solar companies is to write a 20 year warranty, go out of business so no warranty to honor, and open another solar company. Essentially- a dirty business model.

We like the home for the interim that we are eating the $47k USD solar, there simply are not many homes for sale. Yet, we would be paying the same money for the home if it didn't have solar, so we are eating a $47k USD loan that was IMHO a crooked transaction the Seller entered into.

 

[The Critic]

What are the costs of the solar panels? About 10 years ago The cost to do solar with what I needed was $25,000.00 That was in palo cedro Calif, I had 3 bids

These days, 60k range for a 10kw system and one powerwall.

 

[GON]

These days, 60k range for a 10kw system and one powerwall.

Any thoughts if the cost of quality powerwalls might fall significantly in price? Or are battery costs preventing the falling of powerwall prices?

 

[UncleDave]

Let's assume the solar company goes bankrupt months after installing, and the system fails, which is not uncommon. Next, let's assume the installers damaged your roof, but the damage is not visible, again not uncommon.

Not sure what is costs to remove solar, repair a rook, and replace the solar, but I would guess not cheap in California.

Please forgive me- your numbers suggest a fantasy best case scenario- not real life after numerous likely results of a solar purchase and installed are factored in.

I wish the (consumption) numbers I gave you were a fantasy, they are my reality.
Heres the readout from my roof. I have two full months to go for my solar contract year.
For 6 months out of the year I use more than I make running a 1500 watt irrigation pump 19 hours a day.

Currently I've net exported a bit so far but that will continue to fall and go negative over the next two month.

To buy this outright is .53 cents a KWH. It's gone up so fast it shortened the expected ROI dramatically. Originally I was just a bit over 5 years.

As long as the solar company bought known components and installed them properly I can get support and warranty service through someone else. It's hard to say what labor would be but I did the roof and solar at the same time.

Did you ever post up what 47K actually purchased?
Im curious what on that roof?

 

[GON]

I wish the numbers I gave you were a fantasy, they are my reality.
Heres the readout from my roof. I have two full months to go for my solar contract year.
For 6 months out of the year I use more than I make running a 1500 watt irrigation pump 19 hours a day.

Currently Ive net exported a bit so far but that will continue to fall and go negative over the next two month.

To buy this outright is .53 cents a KWH.

As long as the solar company bought known components and installed them properly I can get support and warranty service through someone else. It's hard to say what labor would be but I did the roof and solar at the same time.

View attachment 231489

Glad you found a win- congratulations.

Having read hundreds of reviews by homeowners that purchased solar, you might be the extremely rare exception. I know of not a single case other than you of someone who had their solar investment payoff in three years. Not a single case.

This statement might be worth a second look "As long as the solar company bought known components and installed them properly I can get support and warranty service through someone else. It's hard to say what labor would be but I did the roof and solar at the same time." One can't even purchase many 2002 Ford Thunderbird or 2006 Lincoln Navaigator parts. It seems quite an expectation to think one will be able to locate solar parts made in China and sold in the U.S. because of the super low cost/ high margin for the seller of solar.

 

[UncleDave]

Glad you found a win- congratulations.

Having read hundreds of reviews by homeowners that purchased solar, you might be the extremely rare exception. I know of not a single case other than you of someone who had their solar investment payoff in three years. Not a single case.

This statement might be worth a second look "As long as the solar company bought known components and installed them properly I can get support and warranty service through someone else. It's hard to say what labor would be but I did the roof and solar at the same time." One can't even purchase many 2002 Ford Thunderbird or 2006 Lincoln Navaigator parts. It seems quite an expectation to think one will be able to locate solar parts made in China and sold in the U.S. because of the super low cost/ high margin for the seller of solar.

In my case it was an absolute no brainer easiest most sensible 20K I ever dropped. PG&E reduced the ROI for me by raising their rates, I was no magic on my end.

Depending on what they used it may be easier than you think.

Analogies to cars arent really valid as this industry moves much slower so the parts last longer covering many years of a certain model numbers lifespan.

That system either has a string inverter, or micro inverters.

If it has micro inverters it doesn't really matter what brand of panel or where it's from, as long as it's within the watt range the system doesn't care. You can mix and match panels to your hearts content.

If a string inverter fails that could be some bucks, but the micros are a few hundred bones each as are panels so you can easily afford a hot spare or two if thats a big worry.

Do you know what that roof has?

 

[JeffKeryk]

I agree with your thinking, especially #3. I think another reason would be that you are in part of the country that gets lots of sunny days. My neighbor here in WV installed panels on her roof. They told her she'd get a check back from the power co. About 2 years later she got a new roof. Another company came out and removed the panels, metal roof was installed and they came back to install the panels. It turns out that she had been getting nothing from the panels as they weren't hooked up correctly. We were wondering why she hadn't been bragging. WV is not a high sunny day state but they are helping her out on her bill. Power company here doesn't pay for excess electricity.

I researched solar for 5 years before pulling the trigger. This whole story is horrible. Why would anyone do such a thing?

 

[Vercingetorix]

Holy CRAP. I'm assuming some sort of business?

At home, usually we use around 300-350 kwhr a month. And I've got a hobby shop... welder, plasma, some machine tools, big air compressor, etc.

Electric car and hot tub. 58k miles, no gas, maybe $100 in paying at charging stations

 

[SC Maintenance]

I like @oil pan 4 's answer. Who wants to be beholden to the utility.

Unfortunately my guess is your solar is not stand along but grid tied, with no local storage. Perhaps you can work on that once you own it?

I'll add # 6 as being an inflation hedge. I think these things last 15 to 20 years. Who knows how much a cup of coffee in 20 years will be.

I would love a complete off grid place, but it would need to be big enough for the solar to not be on the roof.

 

[Snagglefoot]

My #4 - I can do basic arithmetic.

View attachment 231462

Our town gets 330+ days of sunshine annually.
Electricity costs are some of the highest in the nation.
Gasoline costs are some of the highest in the nation.
I run the AC far more because I am retired and home more of the time.
I got a great deal on the solar project, which included a new roof.
I hate PG&E (electric company).
I now pay $10 to $20 per month (or less), including powering the EV due to NEM2.

If I had it to do over again I would have used Sunrun (bigger company). Infinity Solar is now out of business. I believe NEM3 killed the solar business around here.

Minus your $17,000 capital cost from your pocket. You might have broken even by now but you’re welcome to plot the break-even curve to bring closure to the project.

 

[JeffKeryk]

What are the costs of the solar panels? About 10 years ago The cost to do solar with what I needed was $25,000.00 That was in palo cedro Calif, I had 3 bids

Prices were waaaay down due to competition in late 2017 for the next few years. I paid a little over $17K for the solar and $12K for the re-roof. 30% off project; about $9K tax credit. I knew I would be retiring and thought I might buy an EV one day.

This was the biggest no brainier in the world.

I suppose you know PG&E prices have skyrocketed and will only continue to rise.
My personal finance strategy has always been to minimize recurring costs. It's known as contingency planning; what if, what if and then, what if. I could almost live on Social Security.

I live dirt cheap. Biggest recurring cost is probably car insurance.

 

[GON]

I researched solar for 5 years before pulling the trigger. This whole story is horrible. Why would anyone do such a thing?

Took five years research by a very smart guy in order to justify the purchase. I think you answered the mail as to why private homeowners in a macro basis may want to think twice , or even a thousand times, before committing to signing a contract to buy solar for their home.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Minus your $17,000 capital cost from your pocket. You might have broken even by now but you’re welcome to plot the break-even curve to bring closure to the project.

Yep, at a cut rate price. It's called an investment. I am surely past break even at this point and have a new roof to boot.
Sometimes I think about doing the math, but there is no reason as the investment is a sunk cost and the monthly bills are no issue in my life. Got bigger fish to fry.

And AC to blow...

 

[JeffKeryk]

Took five years research by a very smart guy in order to justify the purchase. I think you answered the mail as to why private homeowners in a macro basis may want to think twice , or even a thousand times, before committing to signing a contract to buy solar for their home.

@GON I know the other side of life. $10 is a lot of money to me. I dug a hole so deep, and then jumped in. I never wanna be in that place again as long as I live.