Perplexity is amazing.

[UncleDave]

If you haven't seen this AI generated " answer engine" as opposed to search engine whose output is represented as a non attributed sentence (maybe) and a list of links.

Look at how it breaks down this rather complex question.

If you ask it to do research it will give you the attributable link. In this case I gave it all the variables.

This is becoming useful and both more accurate, and more dangerous as it does.

on 9/10/2023 paid 20.6K for a solar system that generates 12.6MWH per year. The value of this energy is at .52 cents per kilowatt hour what date do I break even ?​

Answer
To determine the break-even date for your solar system investment, we need to calculate how long it will take for the energy savings to equal the initial cost. Let's break this down step by step:

1. Initial cost of the solar system: $20,600
2. Annual energy generation: 12.6 MWh (megawatt-hours) per year
   This is equivalent to 12,600 kWh (kilowatt-hours) per year
3. Value of energy: $0.52 per kWh
4. Annual savings calculation:
   12,600 kWh × $0.52/kWh = $6,552 per year
5. Time to break even:
   $20,600 ÷ $6,552 per year = 3.14 years

Now, let's determine the exact break-even date:

• Installation date: September 10, 2023
• 3.14 years = 3 years, 1 month, and 21 days (approximately)

Therefore, the break-even date would be around October 31, 2026.This calculation assumes that:

• The energy production remains constant
• Electricity rates remain stable at $0.52/kWh
• There are no significant maintenance costs or system degradation

It's worth noting that solar panels typically have a lifespan of 25-30 years, so after breaking even, you would continue to benefit from energy savings for many more years.

 

[UncleDave]

Tweaked the sentence a bit as I got the in service date wrong.

on 9/10/2022 I paid 20.6K for a solar system that generates 12.6MWH per year. The value of this energy is at .52 cents per kilowatt hour what date do I break even ?​

Sources
https://unboundsolar.com/solar-information/return-on-solar-investment



View 2 more

Answer
To calculate your break-even date, we need to determine your annual savings and divide the total cost by that amount. Let's break it down:

1. System cost: $20,600
2. Annual energy generation: 12.6 MWh (megawatt-hours) = 12,600 kWh (kilowatt-hours)
3. Value of energy: $0.52 per kWh
4. Annual savings: 12,600 kWh * $0.52/kWh = $6,552 per year

Now, let's calculate the payback period:$20,600 / $6,552 per year = 3.14 yearsTo find the exact break-even date, we'll convert 0.14 years to days:
0.14 * 365 days = 51 daysStarting from September 10, 2022, and adding 3 years and 51 days, we get:Your break-even date is October 31, 2025.This is an impressively short payback period of just over 3 years, which is significantly better than the average payback period of 8-9 years for most solar installations. Your system's high energy production and the high value of electricity in your area contribute to this quick return on investment.After this date, your solar system will essentially be generating free electricity for the remainder of its lifespan, which typically ranges from 25 to 30 years. This means you'll likely have over 20 years of pure savings after breaking even, making your solar investment highly profitable in the long run.

 

[JeffKeryk]

AI algorithms are designed and operate like the human mind; in patterns. But speed of computers and the ability to consume vast amount of data (far more than structured data) takes us from data rich and information poor to data rich and information rich.

From Nvidia:
"In its most fundamental form, AI is the capability of a computer program or a machine to think and learn and take actions without being explicitly encoded with commands. AI can be thought of as the development of computer systems that can perform tasks autonomously, ingesting and analyzing enormous volumes of data, then recognizing patterns in that data. The large and growing AI field of study is always oriented around developing systems that perform tasks that would otherwise require human intelligence to complete—only at speeds beyond any individual’s or group’s capabilities. For this reason, AI is broadly seen as both disruptive and highly transformational.

A key benefit of AI systems is the ability to actually learn from experiences or learn patterns from data, adjusting on its own when new inputs and data are fed into these systems. This self-learning allows AI systems to accomplish a stunning variety of tasks, including image recognition; natural language speech recognition; language translation; crop yield predictions; medical diagnostics; navigation; loan risk analysis; error-prone boring human tasks; and hundreds of other use cases."

My programming career is over, but I continue to study Computer Science. In many ways I am jealous of the tools of today.

 

[JoelB]

I know I'm going to sound completely crazy here but I'm still not willing to interact with these things.

 

[UncleDave]

Then

I know I'm going to sound completely crazy here but I'm still not willing to interact with these things.

I understand that

Then it's probably best to stop using search engines altogether, because they all have some component of AI in them that is learning at an exponential rate.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I know I'm going to sound completely crazy here but I'm still not willing to interact with these things.

Respectfully, the choice is not ours to make. Artificial Intelligence has been a part of our lives for years; it is emerging on a rapid scale.
AI tech rate of change will only accelerate.

Artificial Intelligence is a disrupter, a game changer. I suggest you Google, "AI is a disrupter".
You grow or you go.

 

[UncleDave]

Respectfully, the choice is not ours to make. Artificial Intelligence has been a part of our lives for years; it is emerging on a rapid scale.
AI tech rate of change will only accelerate.

Artificial Intelligence is a disrupter, a game changer. I suggest you Google, "AI is a disrupter".
You grow or you go.

The marketing department has been freaking out the last couple of years.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The marketing department has been freaking out the last couple of years.

What about the executive staff?

 

[sloinker]

Are the utility companies actually paying 52 cents per KWH? I have heard that many are not even buying back power any more and those that do are giving pennies on the dollar. I suppose that some have grandfathered contracts. I also know the cumulative residential generated energy is crap as far as power factor and availability when most needed. Utility power plants spend a lot of money cleaning up garbage power from induction and home solar. Anyone from California with a new install? What is the contracted costs back and forth on average? Sorry, I find the economic discussion more interesting than the AI subject.

 

[UncleDave]

What about the executive staff?

The rest of them see it as a way to be more productive, but not necessarily reduce headcount.

Finance and manufacturing are still bouncing between ERP's.

We've got the epicor guys pitching us now.
Acumatica looks pretty good.

Oracles - Netsuite was a hardcore fail.

 

[UncleDave]

Are the utility companies actually paying 52 cents per KWH. I have heard that many are not even buying back power any more and those that do are giving pennies on the dollar. I suppose that some have grandfathered contracts. I also know the cumulative residential generated energy is crap as far as power factor and availability when most needed. Utility power plants spend a lot of money cleaning up garbage power from induction and home solar. Anyone from California with a new install? What is the contracted costs back and forth on average?

No they arent paying near that even on NEM2.0

They pay .03 for any excess at the end of the period.

Anything on nem 3.0 new pays nothing the only benefit is avoidance and the ability to sell back at the higher rate from storage if you want to cycle your battery. Of course they can just take it from you if they see fit.

PGE sure loves its super cheap daytime power, Im not sure about cleaning it up though, its pretty clean as sent down the line, I put a scope on the output and its indistinguishable from grid input. Maybe the older stuff varies a lot.

Happy to chat about solar,
In any case I wasnt trying to make it a solar thread, but highlight perplexities ability to solve a multi input question that gets asked a lot.

 

[JWC86]

What’s the best/easiest way to use these AI search engines on a computer? Is Chat GPU the way to go?

I’ve never used any of these before but I do see some merits, for example a guy I know keeps all of his service records in an excel sheet like I do. He claims he was able to just copy and paste all the cells into Chat GPU and then ask it stuff like how many oil changes he did, average, min and max time and KM on intervals, etc.

 

[UncleDave]

What’s the best/easiest way to use these AI search engines on a computer? Is Chat GPU the way to go?

I’ve never used any of these before but I do see some merits, for example a guy I know keeps all of his service records in an excel sheet like I do. He claims he was able to just copy and paste all the cells into Chat GPU and then ask it stuff like how many oil changes he did, average, min and max time and KM on intervals, etc.

Thats the great thing about perplexity - they give you X amount per day for free and you can buy more capability if you want deeper research or expanded capabilities. Im going to break down and pay them to see how far it goes.

It's just like a search engine only better.

https://www.perplexity.ai/

 

[JohnnyG]

What would really be nice is if it could figure out the many other variables on it's own. You know, things like the ACTUAL cost of electricity ie. (total monthly bill/kwh, sort of thing) As well as the other associated costs of installation. For example, how much your homeowners insurance went up, what is the cost of removing/installing the panels when you need a roof replacement or repair. You know little things like that.
Otherwise, it's gonna be great one day!

 

[UncleDave]

What would really be nice is if it could figure out the many other variables on it's own. You know, things like the ACTUAL cost of electricity ie. (total monthly bill/kwh, sort of thing) As well as the other associated costs of installation. For example, how much your homeowners insurance went up, what is the cost of removing/installing the panels when you need a roof replacement or repair. You know little things like that.
Otherwise, it's gonna be great one day!

It's pretty great now. Better than anything I've ever seen, and good enough to be quite useful.
Oh I can do the math myself - but it's much faster to just give it the data.

It's as accurate as the data you give it or that it can find- it pretty good at finding and allowing to build on a prior result.

I gave it the actual numbers from my bill and from my generation in the enphase monitor.

For however far off it may be - it isn't going to be so far off as to be material.

The paid feature allows you to upload documents for analysis, Ill try that when I cave in and pay them.

 

[Rand]

That question tells me why I don't have solar.

1)My electric is about 30% of that cost.
2) less sun/less favorable generating conditions.
3) no scam Early NEM contract that takes from the poor(customers of utility) and gives to the wealthy(homeowners who could shell out 20k-40k early on)
But I realize this thread was only peripherally about solar.. and really about AI.
And I dont blame anyone who took advantage of early NEM its not their fault it was offered.

 

[OVERKILL]

With NEM 3 the payback would be ~$500/year, so it would take you 41.2 years to pay it back, lol.

 

[UncleDave]

That question tells me why I don't have solar.

1)My electric is about 30% of that cost.
2) less sun/less favorable generating conditions.
3) no scam Early NEM contract that takes from the poor(customers of utility) and gives to the wealthy(homeowners who could shell out 20k-40k early on)
But I realize this thread was only peripherally about solar.. and really about AI.
And I dont blame anyone who took advantage of early NEM its not their fault it was offered.

1 and 2 are excellent reasons.

#3 has been debunked pretty throughly at least in the US. This was a sales job from the utilities.

Forget about solar - Check out perplexity.

 

[Rand]

With NEM 3 the payback would be ~$500/year, so it would take you 41.2 years to pay it back, lol.

just add in current easily obtainable interest rates of 5+% and how many years?

 

[KevinMalone]

I like using Perplexity but mainly as an executive summary when researching things. If you query something that you are an expert in, you realize that you can't take its response as gospel and should do more research or fact checking.

I think of it as an excellent tool for summarizing many websites and sources, but garbage in, garbage out.