Tainted with aftermarket additives in hope for a fix. As I said earlier I would do a fluid exchange with the fluid the mfg calls for.
Hard Shift from 4th to 5th gear or a bit delayed despite ATF flush and solenoids replacements
- Thread starter Husam
- Start date
Do not do flush! Do replacement of fluid. Release fluid and add the amount that got out.
Did you change the filter? Also, what transmission Genesis uses? Is it ZF, Aisin etc?
And like others said, no additives!
Did you change the filter? Also, what transmission Genesis uses? Is it ZF, Aisin etc?
And like others said, no additives!
I had* a '13 with the exact same problem. I will echo what others have said and say drain & fill at least twice again with Genuine Hyundai/Kia SP-IV-RR fluid with no additives. Take it to a dealer and have them reset/relearn the adaptive transmission control data and apply transmission software updates if there are any (this is the real magic). It cost me $150 USD to get my transmission controller reset and have a software update applied, the car shifted as good as it looked after that.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10082455-0699.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10082455-0699.pdf
*Had it until someone spun-out of their lane and almost made it all the way across my lane right in front of me.
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Yes, I performed at last 2 flushes with OEM fluid without additives; the same behavior persisted. Adaptive values have been reset multiple times. The strange behavior is that the hard shift only happens between the 4th and the 5th gear while the ATF is not fully warmed up. This is a question that I cannot answer. Any ideas?
My guess revolves around: TCU Software glitch, Speed sensor, or worn clutches (which is unlikely to be the case since I take care of the transmission and change ATF every 20K KMs).
I will be happy to listen to everyone's thoughts.
Thanks for the pointers here. and Sorry for what happened.
I've done that for a couple of times before adding any additives.
I performed at last 2 flushes with OEM fluid without additives; the same behavior persisted. Adaptive values have been reset multiple times. The strange behavior is that the hard shift only happens between the 4th and the 5th gear while the ATF is not fully warmed up. This is a question that I cannot answer. Any ideas?
My guess revolves around: TCU Software glitch, Speed sensor, or worn clutches (which is unlikely to be the case since I take care of the transmission and change ATF every 20K KMs).
I will be happy to listen to everyone's thoughts.
Husam,
As-salamu alaykum.
I will take a different tack, I have seen it with various cars. The cause may be a shift solenoid that has lost seal integrity. I have used this same technique to fix the same issue in one Honda and a Volvo. I also suspect your environment has a role to play here (heat). If we had the shift solenoid diagram for the transmission, we could probably figure it out. I suspect your environment has a lot to do with it.
1) Add a cleaning solvent to remove varnish and soften the seals in the solenoids that have hardened. I use Chemtool B-12, there are others or you can make your own from chemical basestocks like acetone, MEK, etc. Since you are not in the US where you can just buy a can of B-12. I don't know for certain but I would imagine getting hi-fraction, light-aromatic hydrocarbon distillates in Dubai would be cheap and easy.
(Maybe I'm wrong)
2) Run that 100 miles/few days.
3) Flush the system fully with the OE fluid.
4) mix in some Lubegard ATF or additive with the fill fluid. It is Ester-based oil and will keep the seals healthy unlike normal oil. May not be easily available where you are, but not as critical as #1) above.
I have had this technique fix many hard/weird shifting problems. Often it is seals on the solenoids that harden. This will soften them and return the line pressures to the correct pressure as designed. What you describe sounds entirely understandable to me. Just flushing fluid is going to do nothing. As a (semi)-famous anatomist once said to me, "Structural problems have structural solutions." Meaning, swapping fluid is a waste of time. You need to go at the problem.
I don't know that transmission in detail, but they are rarely very different. It should have a "test port." If you really want to diagnose this, you remove the test port plug, thread in a tap. Connect a pressure gauge and then shift the transmission and watch the gauge. This can be done with simple hand tools and US$20 in adapters/gauges. Then you have all the data you need to diagnose the problem.
Your mechanic or any of the posters above should have mentioned this, it's simple, cheap and effective.
As-salamu alaykum.
I will take a different tack, I have seen it with various cars. The cause may be a shift solenoid that has lost seal integrity. I have used this same technique to fix the same issue in one Honda and a Volvo. I also suspect your environment has a role to play here (heat). If we had the shift solenoid diagram for the transmission, we could probably figure it out. I suspect your environment has a lot to do with it.
1) Add a cleaning solvent to remove varnish and soften the seals in the solenoids that have hardened. I use Chemtool B-12, there are others or you can make your own from chemical basestocks like acetone, MEK, etc. Since you are not in the US where you can just buy a can of B-12. I don't know for certain but I would imagine getting hi-fraction, light-aromatic hydrocarbon distillates in Dubai would be cheap and easy.
(Maybe I'm wrong)2) Run that 100 miles/few days.
3) Flush the system fully with the OE fluid.
4) mix in some Lubegard ATF or additive with the fill fluid. It is Ester-based oil and will keep the seals healthy unlike normal oil. May not be easily available where you are, but not as critical as #1) above.
I have had this technique fix many hard/weird shifting problems. Often it is seals on the solenoids that harden. This will soften them and return the line pressures to the correct pressure as designed. What you describe sounds entirely understandable to me. Just flushing fluid is going to do nothing. As a (semi)-famous anatomist once said to me, "Structural problems have structural solutions." Meaning, swapping fluid is a waste of time. You need to go at the problem.
I don't know that transmission in detail, but they are rarely very different. It should have a "test port." If you really want to diagnose this, you remove the test port plug, thread in a tap. Connect a pressure gauge and then shift the transmission and watch the gauge. This can be done with simple hand tools and US$20 in adapters/gauges. Then you have all the data you need to diagnose the problem.
Your mechanic or any of the posters above should have mentioned this, it's simple, cheap and effective.
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I would pull codes or at least check for them with a tool that can pull transmission codes as well as other codes would be my next step. You'll either have codes or rule that part out of the equation. Last resort would be a trusted transmission shop. I seriously doubt any additive or cleaner is going to fix it, you need a proper diagnosis before tossing parts at it.
I've seen this complaint on several other Genesis units. My guess is that they have a incorrect characterization in their software calibration and are filling the oncoming clutch too quickly oil when temps are cold and there is less leakage in the circuits. I would expect that to be handled via a calibration update rather than hardware changes.
I guess so too. I'll schedule an appointment with the dealership next month to check the SW.
Thanks for the pointer -- but I have already ran a complete DTC check on the car and had zero codes. I even erased the AT adaptive values.
Thanks for the detailed approach.Husam,
As-salamu alaykum.
I will take a different tack, I have seen it with various cars. The cause may be a shift solenoid that has lost seal integrity. I have used this same technique to fix the same issue in one Honda and a Volvo. I also suspect your environment has a role to play here (heat). If we had the shift solenoid diagram for the transmission, we could probably figure it out. I suspect your environment has a lot to do with it.
1) Add a cleaning solvent to remove varnish and soften the seals in the solenoids that have hardened. I use Chemtool B-12, there are others or you can make your own from chemical basestocks like acetone, MEK, etc. Since you are not in the US where you can just buy a can of B-12. I don't know for certain but I would imagine getting hi-fraction, light-aromatic hydrocarbon distillates in Dubai would be cheap and easy.
2) Run that 100 miles/few days.
3) Flush the system fully with the OE fluid.
4) mix in some Lubegard ATF or additive with the fill fluid. It is Ester-based oil and will keep the seals healthy unlike normal oil. May not be easily available where you are, but not as critical as #1) above.
I have had this technique fix many hard/weird shifting problems. Often it is seals on the solenoids that harden. This will soften them and return the line pressures to the correct pressure as designed. What you describe sounds entirely understandable to me. Just flushing fluid is going to do nothing. As a (semi)-famous anatomist once said to me, "Structural problems have structural solutions." Meaning, swapping fluid is a waste of time. You need to go at the problem.
I don't know that transmission in detail, but they are rarely very different. It should have a "test port." If you really want to diagnose this, you remove the test port plug, thread in a tap. Connect a pressure gauge and then shift the transmission and watch the gauge. This can be done with simple hand tools and US$20 in adapters/gauges. Then you have all the data you need to diagnose the problem.
Your mechanic or any of the posters above should have mentioned this, it's simple, cheap and effective.
Here is the update from my side:
- Scan tool shows zero DTCs.
- Before I flushed the transmission (the last flush out a total of 4 flushes), I added a solvent to clean/flush the varnish out; turns out the ATF was in a pretty good condition. (Solvent added: BG Quick Clean for Automatic Transmission); then added the new OEM ATF (about 10 liters or so) in addition to seals conditioners such as Lubegard red or BG ATC Plus. I even replaced all shift solenoids with new ones at the dealership. The same behavior persisted and I could still feed a harsh shift from 4th to 5th gear when I apply "more than gentle" throttle; however with gentle acceleration, it is completely smooth; which makes me think about two possible options or three options:
- Transmission Speed Sensor
- Torque Convertor
- TCM Software to be calibrated or updated or even re-flashed again.
However, with ATF hot and warm, it is completely smooth.
I will schedule an appointment with the dealership next month and will see how it goes.
Thanks,
Mine was usually the opposite; if I drove like my grandma it would BANG the 4-5 shift, but if I drove it like I was 20 years younger than I am, it would shift correctly. My wife kept complaining about me "driving like a teenager" and my response was that I "had to drive like that or it would shift like a garbage truck". Hopefully a Genesis dealer can apply an update and get you squared away.
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Why do people keep suggesting this guy go by oem fluid when he has repeatedly said, that is exactly what he already did.
- Joined
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Nice work Husam. I’m glad you got it to your liking.
my ‘14 Lexus has a weird shift from 1-2. In the winter it shifts oddly hard. The rest of the year it shifts perfectly, until the car has been running more than 45 minutes, and then it flares and slips into gear. ive experimented with different additives and fluids at very small doses to get it to a happy medium. It’s not perfect, but it’s good enough. It sounds like you did better!
You realize he solved his issue almost 9 months ago ?