Group III oils

[HighRpm]

What brand of oils and/or oils that falls into GROUP III category?

If im buying oil at autozone, murrays or napa, how do u know which is grp 3?

Hopefully, Im phrasing my qs best I can....

Flamesuit on in case....

 

[02zx9r]

Pennzoil Platinum

 

[MGregoir]

Pennzoil Platinum is probably the best group III on the US market across the counter.

Amsoil XL-7500 is an extremely good group III, and their only group III product.

Quaker State Q is a group III product.

Castrol Syntec in all grades except the German made 0W-30 is group III. German made is group IV, US made is Group III. Price-wise it is not a good deal, especially on the same shelf as Pennzoil Platinum.

Valvoline SynPower is a blend of Group III and IV oils.

Almost all non-specialty (Royal Purple, Red Line and Motul would fall into the specialty category) except Mobil 1, German Castrol, and all Amsoil except the XL line fall into the group III category of synthetics as far as I know.

 

[HighRpm]

This article got me thinking
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=204&relatedbookgroup=Maintenance

Whadda say about it?

High shear stable 5w-30 << is this in good directions? Im learning ALOT!

 

[Petty]

Does Amsoil XL contain more additives then the other group III oils? because Quaker State, Pennzoil and Valvoline do not encourage 7,500 miles.

 

[MGregoir]

Some of it is marketing to get you to change oil more often. Synthetics are typically not advertised for longer drains because of warranty concerns and disputes if you do extend drains (it's in the best interests of all marketing parties for you to change as often as the manufacturer recommends at a minimum) and they prefer to use marketing techniques that focus on cleanliness and protecting it.

The oil doesn't mysteriously quit working at 3,000 miles but they don't want you to know that, they want you to know that for the 3,000 miles it is in your engine it is somehow drastically healthier than with any other oil for those 3,000 miles.

Amsoil's big claim to fame is extended drains, the only other companies really pushing "extended" drains beyond 3000 miles are Mobil with the Clean 5000, Clean 7500 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance products, even though most manufacturers recommend changes as infrequently as 10,000 miles in the case of some Hondas on conventional oil, most falling in around the 5,000 mile mark.

Most oil is good for 5,000 miles regardless, but there is a lot of money to be made with you changing it more often.

Amsoil does not want to push the XL-7500 for more than 7500 miles because it's one of few products made available for quick lubes who profit from frequent changes, and because it would interfere with the market for their higher end products. $6 a quart for something that lasts 3/4 as long as something for $9 a quart would not look like a good value proposition on paper.

I believe the XL-7500 oils are fully formulated to be a good group III oil and there might not be too many better on the market if any, but dollar wise there may be better values such as Pennzoil Platinum at 2/3 the price in five quart Wally World jugs. The XL-7500 is definitely a good oil and the equal or better of itself and Platinum which I would consider the two leaders in this segment.

I have seen UOAs that show the XL-7500 is capable of going its rated mileage and much more, and Pennzoil Platinum for 7,500 to 10,000 miles seems to be handily in reach as well.

 

[Drivebelt]

It's probably easier to list the PAO (Group IV) based motor oils, and then just assume the rest are likely Group III based. Most off-the-shelf synthetic motor oils are now GIII based (in North America).

PAO based motor oils …

Mobil 1 …. (some formulations may be mostly GIII based 5W-30, 10W-30 EP's)
Amsoil …. (except for their XL line)
Redline
Royal Purple
Esso XD-3 … (0W-30, 0W-40)
GC … … (German Castrol Syntec 0W-30)

There are also various European brands like Motul and Elf that have some PAO based motor oils too. It wold take extensive research to find which ones are Group III and PAO based.

 

[TallPaul]

Easiest is just buy the lowest price "full synthetic" and you will most likely get Group III and if you get any higher groups it will be a bonus.

 

[Rabbler]

So in a given application and weight is a grp IV oil always superior than a GRP III?
Or depending on blend can a GRP III be a better performer than a GRP IV?
I'm all about price vs performance.

 

[sprintman]

Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 is 100% Group III

 

[Titan]

Originally Posted By: Rabbler
So in a given application and weight is a grp IV oil always superior than a GRP III?
Or depending on blend can a GRP III be a better performer than a GRP IV?
I'm all about price vs performance.


Ah, Grasshopper...you ask "THE" question! It's the total package that makes the lubricant, not simply which "group" to which the base oil is categorized.

Price/Performance: It would be almost impossible to beat the Pennzoil Platinum at 0.99 per quart that many of us scored...however, I was able to pick up a couple of cases of oil at no charge from O'Reilly's, some of it "synthetic".

If you are willing to wait, then jump and stock up when various deals come through, you can cut your oil costs significantly while obtaining performance sufficient that your engine will be well protected, no matter what Group the oil is put into.

 

[CB900F2]

Drivebelt/all, If I am reading this correctly, M1's 5W20 would be a Group IV oil then?

Thanks....

Originally Posted By: Drivebelt
It's probably easier to list the PAO (Group IV) based motor oils, and then just assume the rest are likely Group III based. Most off-the-shelf synthetic motor oils are now GIII based (in North America).

PAO based motor oils …

Mobil 1 …. (some formulations may be mostly GIII based 5W-30, 10W-30 EP's)
Amsoil …. (except for their XL line)
Redline
Royal Purple
Esso XD-3 … (0W-30, 0W-40)
GC … … (German Castrol Syntec 0W-30)

There are also various European brands like Motul and Elf that have some PAO based motor oils too. It wold take extensive research to find which ones are Group III and PAO based.

 

[Drivebelt]

Quote:
If I am reading this correctly, M1's 5W20 would be a Group IV oil then?


I honestly don't know -- it's been tough to find out much about the base oil content among some manufacturers.

The Mobil 1 jpn site lists the following …

5w-50 …PAO
0w-40 … PAO
5w-40 … PAO
15w-50 …PAO
0w-20 … PAO
0w-30 … PAO
5w-30 … PAO/III
10w-30 … PAO/III

So the Japan site even tells us that a couple of their oils have GIII. I also read a post (by someone who supposedly has contacts at Mobil) that a couple of the EP formulations were designed with significant Group III from the start. The formulations that make the most sense for Group III content are -- 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30 because of the narrower viscosity spreads. Group III's are also not as good for 0W oils as PAO's.

Even if the 5W-20's used GIII, it would still likely be some blend of PAO/GIII.

 

[Johnny]

I will probably get blasted for this, but what the heck. I keep hearing on here that Royal Purple is Group IV and I do not believe that is totally correct. Unless they have made some major changes in the past two years, I was told by Royal Purple that their regular PCMO's were Group III and that their Racing Oils were Group IV.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: Rabbler
So in a given application and weight is a grp IV oil always superior than a GRP III?
Or depending on blend can a GRP III be a better performer than a GRP IV?
I'm all about price vs performance.
From a base oil perspective, yes higher group is always better. However I understand there is a lot of variation in Group III and that some Group III is close to qualty of PAO (Gp IV). Of course the additive package is important too. But you'll be fine with whatever synthetic is on sale.

 

[Johnny]

And to add, I would rather have a well formulated Group II+ oil than a poorly formulated Group IV oil. The base stock is a good starting place, but the finished product determines the results.

 

[lewk]

its over 200 dollars for a case of twelve qts to boot, and that was the best "deal" the salesman could offer me.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: lewk
its over 200 dollars for a case of twelve qts to boot, and that was the best "deal" the salesman could offer me.
Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5w40 is probably as good or better than Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 and should not cost more than half that much. Try a truck place. I know Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 is available at chain stores, but not sure on the Extreme synthetic version.

Johnny makes a great point. That's probably why Schaeffer's blend performs so well and maybe better than some store brand synthetics.

 

[Forest]

That's probably why Schaeffer's blend performs so well and maybe better than some store brand synthetics.


Yeah, what about Schaeffer 9003 Synthetic? I see a list of oils we always hear about but not Schaeffer. Why?

 

[Rabbler]

OK to simplify even further.
Mobil 1 and PP are the oils in question here. Both seem well regarded by BITOG members.

So, If can get Mobil 1 and Penn Platinum for the same price is Mobil 1 always the better choice for the same application?
For some reason I think a PAO PAO/blend should be superior to a grp III blend.
I realise the difference in the real world is probably negligible between the two and both are more than adequate in a stock application for which they are designed.