Greetings from forum newbie--and questions

[tmcafe]

Hello everybody,

This seems to be the best real-life info on oils and lubricants. Glad to see motorcyclists are at it again, along with pilots--after all, our oils matter more, right?

I've done a lot of research on oil and got some very good expert suggestions--but since we never know enough, I still have some questions.

My brand-new Moto Guzzi V11 has only about 700 miles and I"m about to change the oil. I'm almost sure I'll go with Rotella 15W-40 at least for the next few thousand miles, This oil has been endorsed by many people, including experts and perfectionists

.

The question is about low temperatures and the oil grade. I may have to start the bike in temps between 20 and 30F and often do short rides. OTOH I may end up taking long trips where I start in the 20s and end up in LA stop and go traffic in the 70s or higher (on my other bike that has happened more than once).

Now this is an aircooled bike, so it's more likely to run hot. In the shop manual, they say 15W can be used down to about 20F. Guzzi's most recent recommendations say 10W-60 should be used, which can only be found in synthetic and it's very expensive, about $12-$14/quart, and the bike takes 4 quarts. I know some folks have used 10W-40 for winter and 20W-50 for summer--most likely I'm going to use the latter for the warmer season. For now, I'd like to go with Rotella 15W-40 dino (I'm officially still breaking the bike in) or another suitable dino oil, perhaps a 10W-40. HDEOs like Rotella, as well as M/C dino oils are all considered. In any case, I'm planning to change the oil at 3k.

Is Rotella 15W-40 okay for possible temperature extremes, such as 20-30F, and 60-80F?

Any suggestions appreciated!

TIA.

tm

 

[02zx9r]

 

[tmcafe]

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Thanks!

PS: my cage is a Tercel

 

[02zx9r]

I have run the rotella 15/40 in both my bikes, and I am running the syn rotella 5/40 in them now.

-TucsonDon had a chart on here showing the 15W40 is good down to about 14F. He also said he emailed shell and asked them and they basically said that down to around 20F occasional starts are ok with the 15/40, but with more frequent starts 5/50 syn is recommended.
-I have done the same things, 20/50 in the summer months but feel i should be ok if I ran the 40 weights in the summer as well.
-A LOT of cyclists like the hdeo's (rotella, chevron delo, mobil delvac 1300 15/40's) as they are good oils at decent prices for the intervals most people run.

-

 

[02zx9r]

sorry meant the 5W40 syn rotella is recommended.

I have not had any problems with any oil I have run in my bikes. Castrol gtx 10/40 (although has been shown through uoa's by some (sunruh has done many and knows which oils are worth the money, or not) that this oil shears out of grade rather quickly, he races I do not)
I ran Exxon superflo 20/50 in both my bikes with good results.
-I have the delo and delvac 15/40's as well as valvoline synpower syn 20/50 that I will eventually run in either bike.
-Lots of choices. Try out a few and through just how the bike feels and shifts or through uoa's you will find what works best for your machine and which ones are the better deals cost wise.
-You can have two identical bikes and one will like a certain brand, the other one wont.

 

[tmcafe]

Quote:

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sorry meant the 5W40 syn rotella is recommended.

I have not had any problems with any oil I have run in my bikes. Castrol gtx 10/40 (although has been shown through uoa's by some (sunruh has done many and knows which oils are worth the money, or not) that this oil shears out of grade rather quickly, he races I do not)
I ran Exxon superflo 20/50 in both my bikes with good results.
-I have the delo and delvac 15/40's as well as valvoline synpower syn 20/50 that I will eventually run in either bike.
-Lots of choices. Try out a few and through just how the bike feels and shifts or through uoa's you will find what works best for your machine and which ones are the better deals cost wise.
-You can have two identical bikes and one will like a certain brand, the other one wont.

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The syn Rotella 5W-40 has a bit too much ash (over the JASO standard), and this is acknowledged on the Rotella website by their expert advice guy. Also I'd skip the fully synthetic until about 6k--yeah, I know, probably silly break-in-no-synthetics superstition. Also for the Guzzi I have to be a bit more careful with overheating since it's an air-cooled big bore. OTOH the tranny oil is separate and the clutch is dry, so these aren't additional issues for the engine oil.

 

[02zx9r]

The M1 v twin 20/50 is supossed to be a pretty darn good oil and I would like to try it someday. Hard to do though as when I ran the M1 mx4t or racing 4t 10/40 it was almost $9/qrt so $40 just in oil alone. I ran the exxon superflo 20/50 for $2.09/qrt. turned in good numbers.
-I do want to run the M1 20/50 though.....

 

[SKUNKY]

M1 5-40 Truck & SUV...all year around..change every 4-5k..
Welcome..

 

[Gilitar]

Yep motorcycle synthetic oil prices are WAY out of hand. I was at the Suzuki dealer the other day and noticed that Amsoil had increased to $10 a quart. I for one won't be buying Amsoil or Mobil 1 motorcycle oils in the future.

OP, I would use Rotella 15w40 in the winter and if you want a thicker oil for the summer you might want to try regular Mobil 1 15w50. (not extended performance)

 

[JonS]

Why not the EP M1 15w-50? It should have more additives (zinc/Phos) than the regular 15w-50. Also the regular 15w-50 has an "EC" in it's specs.

 

[Gilitar]

Quote:

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Why not the EP M1 15w-50? It should have more additives (zinc/Phos) than the regular 15w-50. Also the regular 15w-50 has an "EC" in it's specs.

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No it doesn't. That was a mistake on the Mobil website.

 

[Lost1]

Tm- I was asking the same questions as you a few months ago. I was thinking 10W-40 in the winter, 20W-50 in the summer. (And m/c specific oils at $9-$15 a qt!) But when I saw the specs on the M1 15W-50, I figured I had found my year-round oil.
I've been running the silver-cap Mobil 1 15W-50 in my air-cooled (hot as Hades) '07 Harley for about 1500 miles now, and the bike seems to like it. (Quieter than the Redline m/c 20W-50 I used prior.)
Good thing is that it can be found at any Wal-Mart for about $20 for 5 qts.
It's pure synthetic so it should hold up to the heat well, and you can't beat the price. I'll be doing a UOA on mine in a few months, but I expect it'll do a good job for air-cooled bikes.

Just out of curiosity- does your Guzzi have a shared sump or are the clutch & tranny separate from the engine oil?

Oh, and welcome aboard!

 

[tmcafe]

Thanks everybody!

Very good info. For now I guess I'm going to do my first oil change with Rotella 15W40, since it's been endorsed by so many. Also as I'm superstitious enough to care about such trifles, I'll stay with dino for the first 3-6k miles. Then change to synthetic, as suggested above, and stay with it.

Wallyworld has plenty of offers

Today I found both grades of Mobil1 for motorcycles for only $8.40something. And Castrol 20W50 for motorcycles (I know, it's nothing special) was only about $2.8/qt! At this price, it's worth buying only motorcycle-specific oil. It's rated SG and JASO MA, what the heck?

Have fun!

 

[02zx9r]

Main thing is to change it regularly and keep fresh oil in it no matter the brand

 

[tmcafe]

Lost1,

The Goose has everything separate: engine oil (grade still on debate, with as many versions as owners

); tranny (here there's more agreement on 80W/90; rear drive (same as tranny plus some moly additive). Dry clutch.

So yeah, this opens the choices even more as far as engine oil. For now, I guess I'm going with 15W40 Rotella triple, then switch to synthetic. If your Mobile 1 15W50 UOA comes out nice enough, I may settle on that. On the other hand, Wally carries both 10W40 and 20W50 motorcycle oils for $8 plus. I got both to try them and will try to do a UOA.

Thanks!

 

[tmcafe]

Oh, forgot this. Today I called a Guzzi tech to ask about the installation of an upgrade part under warranty (I'm sure he's very knowledgeable). Anyway, I took this opportunity to ask him whether I should go with a 10W40 (as opposed to 20W50), as winter's coming. To my surprise, he said no, I can stay with the 20W50, there's no problem with cold weather unless we're talking extended periods of very cold temps. Actually, that was the oil grade recommended in the factory manuals from 1999 to 2003, when the updated manuals suddenly changed the recommendation to 5W40 (?). I was told by another Guzzi whiz that the change was due to the new Guzzi models with hydraulic cam lifters that require that oil grade, and the sudden change for the V11 models (with no change in their engines!) was simply a copy-and-paste job from the new manuals for the hydraulic cam lifter bikes! (apparently they didn't even change the headers). For the Guzzisti this should come as no surprise

, it's all Guzzi-style, along with the weird translations, typos, and mistakes in the 4-language manuals!

So yes, it used to be 20W50, and the Goose is a big twin after all, but still, I'm a little bit surprised about the okay I got for the 20W50 for the colder season.

 

[Jaybird]

I realize that mechanics at dealerships have this certain air about them, that tends to make them seem completely knowledgeable in all aspects of the motorbike...But I would take anything at all told to me by a bike shop, or a bike shop mechanic, with a big grain of salt. In fact, I rarely will ask them their opinion on anything at all.

They are often times quite a bit less-than-learned, yet they have such a position that the general public would trust just about anything they were told by them.
I find their info lacking more times than not. They are simply parroting things anyway. Most have not researched these issues, nor are they actually "taught" proper lubrication and tribology in any of their trainings.
Their training concerning oils is, at best, generic and general.

And yes, you will find some very knowledgeable folks in the industry, but not many working in dealerships.

For a mechanic to tell you exactly why a manual states a certain viscosity and grade, tells me lots. It first tells me that he really has no idea, and is only speaking to the company line of what is to be said when that question arises. Manuals are just not that credible...no matter what you may think or feel. Sort of the same thing as the all-knowing mechanic in your bike shop...
You would think their info always comprehensive and reliable, but that is simply not the case in so many instances across the board.

And magazines...if anything at all can be disregarded, it is the information you get about oils in any motorbike mag. -Bar none.
Most moto mag writers are failed Harley builders, or mechanics fired from the dealership for failing a drug screen.
(OK, so I'm stereotypically generalizing )

 

[wileyE]

For reason of break-in (on that motor) I'd stay away from the oil with heavy ep and aw add packs. Like hdeo, many of the MC oil, amsoil, etc. Synthetic or mineral, makes no difference IMHO, it's the add pack that can slow the run in on some motors. Not all engines, but the guzzi, bmws, and many modern bikes (not HD), use a hard nicasil bore with a hard low tension compression ring. Oils with heavy add packs can slow the seating process. Wouldn't go dumping the oil you have because of it, maybe just run it harder, but a automotive sl sm 10w40 or 20w50 may be a good choice with the new motor.

 

[tmcafe]

Thanks for the comments and tips. I agree with Jaybird at least about taking oil recommendations with a grain of salt. After all, that's why they're so many opinions, even in the same dealership. At the same time, like with other things, there's wide range of credibility. This dealership in particular happens to be right there on top. It's run by smart and educated folks who have been dedicated to those bikes for a long time. As much as the factory has a history of being inconsistent and puzzling, those guys are the ones who have been closest to gathering the most accurate info. And yes, most mags are entertaining reads, and often informative, but they're primarily in the advertising business.

WileyE makes a point I though about. Just today I was thinking about getting one of those cheapo 10W40 oils. One of them (think it was Supertech) had all ratings from SM back to SH (not SG), and I guess even ACEA 3, which is the Euro standard. I'm not sure if that's the kind of oil that Wiley's talking about, but the idea of the break-in being slowed down by heavy additive packages makes sense.

Question: if I change the oil now at about 700 miles, when should I change it the next time? I was thinking at about 2500 miles, or is it too long?

 

[Lost1]

For motorcycles I change it at 1000, again at 2500, again at 5000, then 5k intervals after that.