Although I dread the thought of GM going under, at least it would also end the use of Dexcool as a factory antifreeze fill. Maybe, it would also reduce the number of different formulations offered to the public. IMHO, GM caused nearly irreparable damage to its reputation with the use of Dexcool as a factory coolant.
Goodbye GM & Dexcool?
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If you would take the word "nearly" out of your post, I'd agree with it 100%.
Dexcool, or the poor design of intake manifolds, gaskets, and fittings, has, however, made the service departments immensively profitible.
Dexcool, or the poor design of intake manifolds, gaskets, and fittings, has, however, made the service departments immensively profitible.
My mother just had a engine replace on a park avenue because of dexcool, cheap plastic intake, and of course the either bad designed gasket, or the dexcool eating the gasket. This the the 3800 v6, and the second one she has had (park avenue) bother had problems with the intake gasket/plastic intake, and the dexcool. I replaced the coolant, however it was already leaking when I did that, and I out some of the GM tablets in, still to late, coolant getting into cylinders.
Im sorry to inform you RClint that there was a huge settlement on a class action lawsuit in October 2008 that was for people who had a GM vehichle that had Dex Cool coolant and needed to get their automobiles fixed.
I personally love my Pontiac since it is the 1st car I ever bought new. It now has 106000 on it and I noticed the other day that after about 50k miles of service, the overflow tank is all gunked up again. I had the system flushed when the car only had about 40k on it.
Thankfully no other issues with the car I own but this is just another reason why GM needs to go. Add to that their refusal to get the most mpgs in their automobiles that they could and making cars that no one really wants, it all adds up in the end to a company who is burning through cash like crazy and is just a bottomless pit.
My next car will be a Ford again but their again, I just dont really see anything in their lineup except the explorer that I like and with gas last year going for over 4$ a gallon, I am scared to get anything that big ever.
I personally love my Pontiac since it is the 1st car I ever bought new. It now has 106000 on it and I noticed the other day that after about 50k miles of service, the overflow tank is all gunked up again. I had the system flushed when the car only had about 40k on it.
Thankfully no other issues with the car I own but this is just another reason why GM needs to go. Add to that their refusal to get the most mpgs in their automobiles that they could and making cars that no one really wants, it all adds up in the end to a company who is burning through cash like crazy and is just a bottomless pit.
My next car will be a Ford again but their again, I just dont really see anything in their lineup except the explorer that I like and with gas last year going for over 4$ a gallon, I am scared to get anything that big ever.
Originally Posted By: 04grandprix
Add to that their refusal to get the most mpgs in their automobiles that they could
Could you elaborate on that? Their big 3.8 sedans get 30 MPG and have 205 hp.
Hating a huge company over one fluid choice is like saying dell computers are junk because the speakers sound tinny. Take the 1/2 hour and change it to something else.
Add to that their refusal to get the most mpgs in their automobiles that they could
Could you elaborate on that? Their big 3.8 sedans get 30 MPG and have 205 hp.
Hating a huge company over one fluid choice is like saying dell computers are junk because the speakers sound tinny. Take the 1/2 hour and change it to something else.
I will give a bit more info, both cars were bought used, the first one (that hooked her on this engine/car) was a Bonneville, she got well over 300K out of that car, never any problems with engine the 3800 (older version aluminum intake I think, even had factory headers) The next one a Park Avenue she got around 270K out of however she had problems with the harmonic balancer, and the plastic intake (filled cylinder up with water and locked it down), along with an plastic belt idler) Current Park Avenue has around 110K on it, just had the motor replaced because we didn't catch the leaky intake in time. By the way I'm not sure how much these cars weigh, however she can get an average of 32 MPG, and these cars have plenty of get up and go. The 3800 v-6 is a OUTSTANDING motor, coming from a Honda enthusiast.. however GM while counting their beans behind closed doors decides to save millions by going to a plastic intake, things like that is what will close a company down, it's hard to get that kind of bad taste out of someones mouth. I'm not one against plastic if it works either, in this application I don't think it works... it sure has not for us (is there another application of a plastic intake that works with no problems ?)
When Mama wears this one out she will no doubt buy another Pontiac with a 3800 in it, last time she almost got a supercharged model, I talked her out of that as she commutes back and forth to work, not to mention the need for higher octane gas, however it was showroom new, maybe I caused her some problems being the car she has now had to have the motor replaced, I hope not. The next time she has a intake problem I will try to get the information about the special gasket to solve the problem (I have just skimmed over the info) and also I wonder if there is a aluminum intake that can be used to do away with the plastic ?
I'm stuck with my little Honda Accord, I have a 97 EX 250K with no problems, a 2002 115K that has a transmission quirk that I have not got fixed yet.
Clint
When Mama wears this one out she will no doubt buy another Pontiac with a 3800 in it, last time she almost got a supercharged model, I talked her out of that as she commutes back and forth to work, not to mention the need for higher octane gas, however it was showroom new, maybe I caused her some problems being the car she has now had to have the motor replaced, I hope not. The next time she has a intake problem I will try to get the information about the special gasket to solve the problem (I have just skimmed over the info) and also I wonder if there is a aluminum intake that can be used to do away with the plastic ?
I'm stuck with my little Honda Accord, I have a 97 EX 250K with no problems, a 2002 115K that has a transmission quirk that I have not got fixed yet.
Clint
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The intakes on the Toyota/Scion 1.5 liter engine are plastic...never heard of a problem with them.
It is widely known that the big 3 car companies have been against the higher fuel mileage standards while companies like Toyota are already producing fuel sipping vehichles. While the big 3 focused on selling suvs which where high profit margins, their competitors where foucsing on higher fuel mileage and building super successful car lines like the Prius.
GM now has several vehichles that get over 30mpg but they have drained the American worker out of a job, over paid for labor and benefits and now have recieved a bottomless pit of money to keep them afloat.
If GM had focused on product lines that really got over 30mpg before the fuel crisis last year and made cars and trucks that people really wanted, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
I respect your opinion and commentary and look forward to your next reply.
GM now has several vehichles that get over 30mpg but they have drained the American worker out of a job, over paid for labor and benefits and now have recieved a bottomless pit of money to keep them afloat.
If GM had focused on product lines that really got over 30mpg before the fuel crisis last year and made cars and trucks that people really wanted, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
I respect your opinion and commentary and look forward to your next reply.
Originally Posted By: DriveHard
The intakes on the Toyota/Scion 1.5 liter engine are plastic...never heard of a problem with them.
The problem with the plastic GM intakes on the 3.8L is they have coolant passages through them, and the 2EH organic acid in Dexcool is a plastecizer, meaning it softens plastic. The intake gaskets for many years on all GMs known to leak internally, were plastic framed. They get soft from the Dexcool and leak.
GM had to know this - Ford experimented with OAT 2EH coolants and found the same thing. That's why they went with GO5.
The intakes on the Toyota/Scion 1.5 liter engine are plastic...never heard of a problem with them.
The problem with the plastic GM intakes on the 3.8L is they have coolant passages through them, and the 2EH organic acid in Dexcool is a plastecizer, meaning it softens plastic. The intake gaskets for many years on all GMs known to leak internally, were plastic framed. They get soft from the Dexcool and leak.
GM had to know this - Ford experimented with OAT 2EH coolants and found the same thing. That's why they went with GO5.
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I haven't seen a GM sedan over the last 15 years that didn't have class leading power and/or economy. FWIW the silverado gets 21 MPG from a 300+ hp V8, impressive too.
That is about the limit of their expertise; body design is usually ho-hum to terrible and I bet that helps keep people away.
If one doesn't like dexcool like the OP states, it can be drained and refilled with something else... immediately or at warranty end.
If one considers a 60-degree v6 a dud b/c of the IM gaskets... that's fine, pick your poison... other vehicles have dud transmissions etc. At least a proven aftermarket solution, the fel-pro gasket set and your favorite other chemistry coolant, has been developed.
Who knows where the bean counters are cheapening the 2010s, or for what marques?
That is about the limit of their expertise; body design is usually ho-hum to terrible and I bet that helps keep people away.
If one doesn't like dexcool like the OP states, it can be drained and refilled with something else... immediately or at warranty end.
If one considers a 60-degree v6 a dud b/c of the IM gaskets... that's fine, pick your poison... other vehicles have dud transmissions etc. At least a proven aftermarket solution, the fel-pro gasket set and your favorite other chemistry coolant, has been developed.
Who knows where the bean counters are cheapening the 2010s, or for what marques?
The problem is, 99.9% of GM owners didn't know anything about the Dexcool problems until it was too late. It was/is a huge systemic problem with GM that affect 10s of thousands of vehicle owners.
If GM has any hope of repairing their reputation, they better start coming clean on the real problems their cars have and make changes promptly and not continue to act like they don't have them. There is enough negative press toward their marque because of perceived fuel mileage inefficiencies. I say this as a current and prior GM owner and am not just bashing American automakers. I think the Big 3 have the ability to produce autos comparable to the imports but they can ill afford right now to make any more mistakes. GM should have dumped Dexcool years ago, but they stubbornly cling to its use even though much evidence indicates it's inferiority. GM could vastly improve its current reputation by merely repudiating the use of Dexcool and assuring future buyers that it won't switch back. If buyers perceive GM is now making decisions for the buyers benefit, it might lure back the ones that switched to imports.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
The problem is, 99.9% of GM owners didn't know anything about the Dexcool problems until it was too late. It was/is a huge systemic problem with GM that affect 10s of thousands of vehicle owners.
+1 there.
I didn't know about the intake manifold problem until I joined this forum.
I did an oil change and noticed the Pennzoil had turned to peanut butter on my oil filler cap.
I took the car to the mechanic and he showed me the leakage.
At the time I had 108,000 on the car and any class action elgibility had expired a month and a half before my discovery.
GM still makes some great vehicles.
I'll buy again, if they are still building cars.
The problem is, 99.9% of GM owners didn't know anything about the Dexcool problems until it was too late. It was/is a huge systemic problem with GM that affect 10s of thousands of vehicle owners.
+1 there.
I didn't know about the intake manifold problem until I joined this forum.
I did an oil change and noticed the Pennzoil had turned to peanut butter on my oil filler cap.
I took the car to the mechanic and he showed me the leakage.
At the time I had 108,000 on the car and any class action elgibility had expired a month and a half before my discovery.
GM still makes some great vehicles.
I'll buy again, if they are still building cars.
I had the intake manifold gasket problem on my 5.7L SBC (arguably one of the best engines ever produced) and was a bit peturbed I had to tear it apart at 56k miles. Quite frankly, I expected a lot more. Then, I "inherited" a 31k mile Alero with large leaks coming from the intake manifold. The Alero gaskets were intact (I'm replacing them anyway), but the manifold bolts were loose, and there was a large leak coming from the thermostat bypass pipe.
The pipe was a thin steel one, just pressed into the aluminum manifold. No o-ring seals or nothing. The sealing method now is to paint it with red threadlocker. Wonder how long that will hold with the different expansion rates of steel and aluminum? I think the design was engineered by an accountant.
I've had a lot of foreign cars and motorcycles in the past that were 1/10 the quality of their American made counterparts. They always leaked. My GMs didn't. Not any more.
As far as I'm concerned, with some exceptions, GM now has about the same quality as the British carmakers had in the late '60s. They went bankrupt. So will GM. The only thing that remains to be seen is how much taxpayer money they will take with them before they go down.
The pipe was a thin steel one, just pressed into the aluminum manifold. No o-ring seals or nothing. The sealing method now is to paint it with red threadlocker. Wonder how long that will hold with the different expansion rates of steel and aluminum? I think the design was engineered by an accountant.
I've had a lot of foreign cars and motorcycles in the past that were 1/10 the quality of their American made counterparts. They always leaked. My GMs didn't. Not any more.
As far as I'm concerned, with some exceptions, GM now has about the same quality as the British carmakers had in the late '60s. They went bankrupt. So will GM. The only thing that remains to be seen is how much taxpayer money they will take with them before they go down.
Crummy Parts= Crummy Cars
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I just received a check from the Dexcool class action Settlement for $400. This covered nearly 2/3's of the repair. I was pretty happy to get it. My Buick is one of (if not THE) best cars I've owned and at 104K its running like new. I really believe the I/M gasket design (4 bolts where there should be 8 or 10 and plastic where there should be metal) is the problem rather than the Dexcool.
I just drained and refilled my 2001 Saturn with Dexcool! It's worked good for 108k miles.
Is the problem unique to Dexcool or to all extended-life coolants?
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