Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Cardinal49
I did just look on the Toyota website. They are obviously not an independant 3rd party but they state that in the US they have created over 365,000 jobs, invested $18B, have 1506 dealers and have over $24B in purchasing. Again, very impressive numbers.
It's not very impressive because the foreign transplants investment and jobs number are much lower than the domestics even though they sell as many cars in the US as the domestics. And you are still ignoring the fact that this is US market share that previously was supplied by the domestics anyway. No net gain, no equivalency even if the foreign automakers took all of the US market. Just lower wages and benefits, less jobs and more contract temporary jobs and more foreign ownership. You keep arguing equivalency when it's not there. I guess equivalency must mean losing your job or taking a job at half pay with no benefits. And if Toyota's website can be a source then so can the UAW's president who answered the question of what the difference is:
Quote:
Here are some facts you may want to consider about the domestic auto industry:
•The U.S.-based automakers directly employ nearly 300,000 employees – about two-thirds of all American auto workers.
•Nearly three million U.S. workers are directly or indirectly dependent on the U.S.-based automakers in jobs in the automotive parts industry, automotive research, design and engineering, and in jobs created by money spent on goods and services from the automotive industry and its workers.
•Ford, GM and Chrysler sell less than half the cars bought in the United States, but they buy about two-thirds of the parts made in the United States.
•U.S.-based automakers buy much of the steel, rubber and semiconductors made in the United States; conduct more R&D than any other industry and have invested more than $230 billion in new plants and infrastructure over the past 25 years.
•Investment in R&D has a big impact on whether tomorrow’s best jobs remain in the United States. In 2009, U.S.-based automakers spent $17.5 billion on R&D and 80 cents of every dollar was spent in the United States. U.S.-based automakers do the bulk of their research, design and engineering in the United States, unlike the foreign automakers.
•From 2001 to 2005, the U.S.-based automakers invested more in U.S. plants and infrastructure than all the foreign automakers together invested over the past 25 years. Eighty-six cents of every dollar automakers invested in America came from Ford, GM or Chrysler; the remaining 14 cents came from all the foreign automakers combined.
•Unionization of the U.S.-based automakers by the UAW was a major factor in the creation of the post-war middle class in the United States. Unionization gave workers the right to bargain for fair wages and benefits, giving them the means to buy a house, send their children to college and have a secure retirement. Workers need a voice on the job and a place at the table with employers. Union representation provides that and gives workers a ladder to economic stability. The foreign-owned automakers in the United States are mostly nonunion and resist attempts by workers to organize.
•And quite honestly, all workers’ (union and non-union, manufacturing and service, professional and non-professional) wages and benefits rose when union manufacturing workers raised their wages and benefits through collective bargaining. Health care benefits, pensions, vacations, holidays, and many other benefits and improvements in working conditions were first won in union contracts that later became standard benefits for all workers. And you may have noticed as union workers have been losing some or a portion of these benefits, so have all workers. It is no coincidence.
•According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the Camry has 75 percent domestic content. In contrast, Ford produces seven vehicles with 90 percent domestic content. The highest domestic content for any of Toyota’s vehicles is the Sienna, with 85 percent.
•Chrysler, Ford and GM manufacture vehicles with more domestic content across their fleets than the foreign brands. As an example, averaged across fleets, Chrysler’s domestic content is 76 percent; Ford, 64 percent; GM, 64 percent; Honda, 63 percent; Toyota 46 percent and Nissan, 31 percent. If the U.S.-based automakers’ domestic content shrank to the same level as the foreign automakers, it would mean $49 billion less spent in the United States, costing more than 1 million U.S. jobs.
•For the past several years, vehicles made by U.S.-based automakers have consistently been ranked high, if not the highest, in several quality categories in the esteemed, annual J.D. Power vehicle quality studies. In fact, in the 2010 J.D. Power Quality study results, U.S.-based automakers' cars ranked in the top three of 12 categories and ranked first over foreign-company brands in six of the 12 categories.
•In the July, 2010 JD Power Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout Study (APEAL) that measures customer satisfaction, domestic brands ranked higher than foreign brands. Domestic manufacturers won eight of the top 20 ranked vehicles, with Ford winning the highest award in five segments – more than any other manufacturer. Domestic brands had an average score of 787 points on a 1,000-point scale, 13 points higher than the overall score of foreign brands.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Cardinal49
I did just look on the Toyota website. They are obviously not an independant 3rd party but they state that in the US they have created over 365,000 jobs, invested $18B, have 1506 dealers and have over $24B in purchasing. Again, very impressive numbers.
It's not very impressive because the foreign transplants investment and jobs number are much lower than the domestics even though they sell as many cars in the US as the domestics. And you are still ignoring the fact that this is US market share that previously was supplied by the domestics anyway. No net gain, no equivalency even if the foreign automakers took all of the US market. Just lower wages and benefits, less jobs and more contract temporary jobs and more foreign ownership. You keep arguing equivalency when it's not there. I guess equivalency must mean losing your job or taking a job at half pay with no benefits. And if Toyota's website can be a source then so can the UAW's president who answered the question of what the difference is:
Quote:
Here are some facts you may want to consider about the domestic auto industry:
•The U.S.-based automakers directly employ nearly 300,000 employees – about two-thirds of all American auto workers.
•Nearly three million U.S. workers are directly or indirectly dependent on the U.S.-based automakers in jobs in the automotive parts industry, automotive research, design and engineering, and in jobs created by money spent on goods and services from the automotive industry and its workers.
•Ford, GM and Chrysler sell less than half the cars bought in the United States, but they buy about two-thirds of the parts made in the United States.
•U.S.-based automakers buy much of the steel, rubber and semiconductors made in the United States; conduct more R&D than any other industry and have invested more than $230 billion in new plants and infrastructure over the past 25 years.
•Investment in R&D has a big impact on whether tomorrow’s best jobs remain in the United States. In 2009, U.S.-based automakers spent $17.5 billion on R&D and 80 cents of every dollar was spent in the United States. U.S.-based automakers do the bulk of their research, design and engineering in the United States, unlike the foreign automakers.
•From 2001 to 2005, the U.S.-based automakers invested more in U.S. plants and infrastructure than all the foreign automakers together invested over the past 25 years. Eighty-six cents of every dollar automakers invested in America came from Ford, GM or Chrysler; the remaining 14 cents came from all the foreign automakers combined.
•Unionization of the U.S.-based automakers by the UAW was a major factor in the creation of the post-war middle class in the United States. Unionization gave workers the right to bargain for fair wages and benefits, giving them the means to buy a house, send their children to college and have a secure retirement. Workers need a voice on the job and a place at the table with employers. Union representation provides that and gives workers a ladder to economic stability. The foreign-owned automakers in the United States are mostly nonunion and resist attempts by workers to organize.
•And quite honestly, all workers’ (union and non-union, manufacturing and service, professional and non-professional) wages and benefits rose when union manufacturing workers raised their wages and benefits through collective bargaining. Health care benefits, pensions, vacations, holidays, and many other benefits and improvements in working conditions were first won in union contracts that later became standard benefits for all workers. And you may have noticed as union workers have been losing some or a portion of these benefits, so have all workers. It is no coincidence.
•According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the Camry has 75 percent domestic content. In contrast, Ford produces seven vehicles with 90 percent domestic content. The highest domestic content for any of Toyota’s vehicles is the Sienna, with 85 percent.
•Chrysler, Ford and GM manufacture vehicles with more domestic content across their fleets than the foreign brands. As an example, averaged across fleets, Chrysler’s domestic content is 76 percent; Ford, 64 percent; GM, 64 percent; Honda, 63 percent; Toyota 46 percent and Nissan, 31 percent. If the U.S.-based automakers’ domestic content shrank to the same level as the foreign automakers, it would mean $49 billion less spent in the United States, costing more than 1 million U.S. jobs.
•For the past several years, vehicles made by U.S.-based automakers have consistently been ranked high, if not the highest, in several quality categories in the esteemed, annual J.D. Power vehicle quality studies. In fact, in the 2010 J.D. Power Quality study results, U.S.-based automakers' cars ranked in the top three of 12 categories and ranked first over foreign-company brands in six of the 12 categories.
•In the July, 2010 JD Power Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout Study (APEAL) that measures customer satisfaction, domestic brands ranked higher than foreign brands. Domestic manufacturers won eight of the top 20 ranked vehicles, with Ford winning the highest award in five segments – more than any other manufacturer. Domestic brands had an average score of 787 points on a 1,000-point scale, 13 points higher than the overall score of foreign brands.
All depends on how you interpret it. Maybe Toyota is more efficient and does not need as many workers. I do not agree that Toyota took GMs share. I think it more accurate to state that American consumers made an educated decision to give their business to Toyota.
I did say that I got the info off of Toyota's website. It may be inflated. I do however give the credibility mark to Toyota over the UAW.
