GM On the Rise

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1)You see only the broken ones.

2)Your whole industry has a very bad reputation (mostly deserved in my experience), so if someone doesn't believe what a mechanic tells them then maybe they've just been lied to by one too #@$%! many times.
 
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Some people have the same attitude that GM has. GM says there is no quality problem and just becouse your 5.3L knocks like a diesel does not mean your engine was poorly designed. You are just being too picky. Hey,the truck only cost you 35grand so what do you expect?

I started my repair career out with FO MO CO and they had the same mentality. Their cars were just as good as the Toyotas but the owners were just too stupid to realize it. That is why the nameplate called Taurus is dead and the nameplate called Camry is selling better than ever after 22 years. Thats why the domestics have to come up with new names for their cars every few years. People have paid hard money for a POS and wont buy another one so they just come up with a new name instead of fixing the problem. The Accord nameplate has been around since the late 70s? No need to change the name every few years like GM does cause theres a huge market that have had nothing but good service from every one of them they have purchased.

I wish GM would change and do right by the customer but they simply can't do it without a massive change in the way they make cars. It is all well and good to build cars like the Vette and the Z-28 as well as other enthusiast based rides but that won't keep you profitable in this market. With gas pushing 3.50 a gallon in some ereas;you better be able to build something that customers will want to own more than a Corolla,Civic,Camry,Accord and GM simply can't afford to do that in their present configuration.


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The Aura completely out classes both the Accord and Camry.




Thats simply an opinion that cannot be substantiated with sales figures
Oh and by the way;what will they call it 5 years from now when they have to change it's name due to the poor service record it will have? Maybe Borealis?
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The average Toyota driver doesn't want RWD nor do they want a manual transmission.




The typical Toyota driver wouldn't know why there was three pedals on the floor.
They're some of the most car-dumb people I've ever met.

Not that I really like GM products, I'm more of a Mopar guy myself, but at least the General has a little dash of personality built into even the lowest-end products such as the Cobalt and G5. They look sharp. They may not be as uber-reliable as the Toyota counterpart, but they're not bland, white toast transportation appliances either.

People buy a Toyota because they feel they have to, not necessarily because they want to.

As of late, this forum seems to be one of the most Toyota/Honda biased places I've ever frequented that is supposed to be a simple automotive general potpourri (sp?) forum.

And you better not ruffle the feathers of the Toyota/Honda lovers, or you're really asking for it. Parish the thought that someone brings up the fact that their cars may run 200,000 miles with only gas and maintenance, but in the salt states will be a piece of Swiss cheese rusted to oblivion, where the unreliable old Chevys and Fords are chugging along looking showroom new 10 years down the road.

It's certainly not the unbiased knowledge pool it once was here.
 
Let's forget some of the above nonsense, and get back to facts.
1. GM and Ford products can last a long time. I own a Ford, like it, and have found it as realiable as any Honda.
2. I have owned thirty years worth of Hondas. We don't continue buying them because they're junk, and we like to torture ourselves. They are great machines.
3. The Honda dealership experience is not all that pleasant. In contrast, buying the Ford was a pleasure.
4. GM and Ford are certainly making better products than they have in the recent past. It will take time for both to regain their reputations among buyers who can afford to shop elsewhere. Both have frosted a lot of buyers over the years, and it wasn't all in the buyers' imaginations.
5. I wish both Ford and GM well. I hate to see Toyota overtaking GM for global sales leadership. It wasn't that long ago that GM had nearly 60% of the market, worldwide.
6. GM and Ford both have deep parts bins and product catalogs in Europe, They need to start making serious use of them. I am not talking about badge-engineering an Opel into a Cadilllac, or creating a make-believe brand like "Merkur". Rather, bring some of the best from Europe. Mercedes and BMW do. Why not give it a try?
 
I drove in a Pontiac torrent yesterday. I've also been in the backseat of a subaru forrester and a honda crv, all with less than 5000 miles on the clock. The torrent AMAZED me, seats were comfortable, I had room to stretch out, and the ride was smooth and solid, compared to the honda or subaru.

I will say fwiw, my dad was burned by GM products back in the late 70's, so he developed a strong biased towards asian cars. He bought an outback, the suspension failed, common problem aparently, it was a very expencive setup too, it lowered and rose at the touch of a button. Cost was thousands to repair. Also the engine was in need of being replaced, car had less than 100k miles on it.

His new 2003 outback, the transmission is very slow to change gears and is unresponsive. The window seal wasnt on right from day 1 and whistled, and now his driver side window goes too far out of the door. Also the engine pings if he puts the recommended regular gas in. Little plastic pieces of trim keep falling out and breaking too. Never heard any complaints about any of this from him, but when the 2004 grand am we leased had to go back to the dealer to replace something he was ecstatic, told everyone about it and how bad GM was.

I have to say that grand am was one of the best cars i've ever driven, firm and absorbent suspension, handling, plenty of power and great economy. Although he always remarked (he'd driven this car a total of 100 miles the entire time we had it) every time he drove it how it felt worse than when we first got it, and how bad the ride was. He was comparing apples to oranges there, an economy car to his SUV (if you can call it that, not sure what it's classified as)
 
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And you better not ruffle the feathers of the Toyota/Honda lovers, or you're really asking for it. Parish the thought that someone brings up the fact that their cars may run 200,000 miles with only gas and maintenance, but in the salt states will be a piece of Swiss cheese rusted to oblivion, where the unreliable old Chevys and Fords are chugging along looking showroom new 10 years down the road.




Gotta disagree with that one, although i've seen some old rusted toyotas. My 94 corolla has 2 rust spots, one on the ceiling smaller than a penny, and a little on the rear fender. Nothing more than that. The car spent it's entire life outside in new jersey, 1 mile from the ocean. If that doesn't say anything I don't know what does.
 
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Subbie was partly owned by GM, which is how SAAB got the WRX wagon for a minute.




That's true, I don't think they touched the outback, but even then that's not the point. Point is how his Asian car had worse problems than my American car but that didn't keep him from bashing it. Plus his car has something ridiculous like 5 different recalls on it, but when the air conditioning dial broke on my car he went on for weeks about it (it was a plastic dial, price is no more than $10, and the dealership fixed it for me under warranty in about 15 minutes from the time I walked in there, they handled all the paperwork and such too)
 
The wonderful thing about this site is that you can call it like you see it not how someone else sees it. There are alot folks who have Toyotas/Hondas and have put tons of trouble-free miles on them and they ain't afraid to speak up about their cars on this site. Many were previous GM/FORD owners that know there is a big difference in the quality of the cars. Nobody is going to tell them their Accord is a worse built car than a Cavalier without them speaking up. If that is being biased,I am guilty.
Those that like GM products have every right to own one if the so desire. It helps keep techs like me in business. Sure GM has made some improvements in the fit and finish of their cars and those of you who like them owe Toyota/Honda a debt of gratitude for forcing the domestics to at least attempt to make the door and hood seams line up.
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Try to tell any old-school SAAB owner that GM's ownership is not the point. Point is, GM has spent too much effort on squeezing each nickle. If GM went back to the days of bland quality, as seen in the '77 B and C bodies, and the '78 A bodies, GM would do fine. These were not high-spec cars, but you could feel the development effort with every mile you drove. My family had '77, 78, and '79 Caprices. With F-41 suspension, you felt like the master of any road. I had '79, 80, and '81 Malibu company cars. They were nothing thrilling, but they rode well, handled decently, and got reasonable mileage. GM can learn alot by looking at its long history.
 
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...but in the salt states will be a piece of Swiss cheese rusted to oblivion, where the unreliable old Chevys and Fords are chugging along looking showroom new 10 years down the road.




I want picture PROOF! Oh, wait...

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Thats easy . Too many toyota 5vzfe blocks in back at time of improper lift . Did you learn from that ?
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The typical Toyota driver wouldn't know why there was three pedals on the floor.
They're some of the most car-dumb people I've ever met.




True story: A friend of mine and I were discussing changing the shocks and struts on my 1988 Mustang GT. It had about 150K on it then.

One of his friends overheard and says, "I have 150K on my Camry and it doesn't need new shocks or struts".

What he thought he was saying:

That the Camry is such a superior car that it doesn't need such maintenance.

What he really said:

If he's not totally oblivious to the degradation in handling due to worn struts and shocks, then he doesn't care about how the car handles at all, as is typical of the average Camry driver.
 
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