GM On the Rise

[alanu]

I think people should discuss cars with real mechanics. I run an independant shop and I'll admit GM and Ford vehicles are paying my mortgage.

I have never changed a Toyota or Honda fuel pump, or heatercore. Heater hoses seem to have excellent longevity and do not soften up as quick as a domestic. Not bashing domestics I am just stating observations. Pulling the dash out of a car to change a heatercore isn't a nice thing for a mechanic OR the wallet of the owner.

The GM intake gasket fiasco will scare many consumers. The new updated intake gasket (revision #3???? #4????) is now made of metal with infused rubber seals. As far as reliability I would question even "new improved".
I have done a fair share of V6 intake gaskets and I shake my head and feel sorry for the customers that have to pay me for a designed failure rate.

I can tell you that its an easy $600-700+ CDN for a R&R fuel pump/assembly job. Yes I see this very frequently too. Sunfire, Cavaliers are notorious for having dead fuel pumps.

I've done so many 2.2L headgaskets its sick. Its either engineering or low quality aluminum heads warping. I've seen issues with conrod bearings letting go on alot of sunfires that have the quad4 junk engines. If you talk to engine rebuilders they will tell you the same.

I will admit I have pulled out by far more domestic transmissions than an import.

No car make is perfect. I am finding there is a huge trend in leasing cars these days. GM's are simply cheaper for a person looking for a limited fixed expense (NON luxury, NON higher end models). Also people dont realize that a very high percentage of RENTAL cars are GM's so this also increases the sales which may appear as a BOOST in sales.

New cars are great but when the mileage creeps up engineering flaws will prevail.

People may slam toyota for sludge but I know the dealerships in my area have been rebuilding or swapping crate motors under warranty for the v6 models. Nothing is perfect. Less frequent trips to the mechanic shop is what people like. People have preferences so I tell people buy whatever you like...its your wallet.

 

[g20ooh]

It's hard to sling a bent connecting rod around here without hitting a sludged up Toyota.

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I'm still laughing so hard I can't post.................. . but I do gotta ask you ; would do you prefer ; a 5vzfe #6CR with M1 and toyota pink or a #4 from a 3vze with conventional and toyota red ???? .

 

[Cutehumor]

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I can tell you that its an easy $600-700+ CDN for a R&R fuel pump/assembly job. Yes I see this very frequently too. Sunfire, Cavaliers are notorious for having dead fuel pumps.

I've done so many 2.2L headgaskets its sick. Its either engineering or low quality aluminum heads warping. I've seen issues with conrod bearings letting go on alot of sunfires that have the quad4 junk engines. If you talk to engine rebuilders they will tell you the same.

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surprised..I'm on the original headgasket/fuel pump on my 2.2L sunfire. (knock on wood)

 

[norseman]

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I can tell you that its an easy $600-700+ CDN for a R&R fuel pump/assembly job. Yes I see this very frequently too. Sunfire, Cavaliers are notorious for having dead fuel pumps.

I've done so many 2.2L headgaskets its sick. Its either engineering or low quality aluminum heads warping. I've seen issues with conrod bearings letting go on alot of sunfires that have the quad4 junk engines. If you talk to engine rebuilders they will tell you the same.

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surprised..I'm on the original headgasket/fuel pump on my 2.2L sunfire. (knock on wood)

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Hey, Cutehumor, I truly believe that most (note; I did not say all) of the statements like, "I've done so many 2.2L headgaskets its sick." are just BullSh!t! I've been friends with a fella here for 10 years that's been running a very successfull shop for 20 something years he only buys GM products. His answer to my question why; "because the brands from Japan cost much, much more to properly maintain and truth be told I see just as many Accords as I do anything else."

 

[LouDawg]

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His answer to my question why; "because the brands from Japan cost much, much more to properly maintain and truth be told I see just as many Accords as I do anything else."

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Trouble is, the Accords are *on the road* driving past his shop when he sees them.

(JK dude...couldn't resist)

 

[brianl703]

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To call people stupid or liars becouse they refuse to purchase a vehicle that they see fail on a daily basis due to poor quality

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My experience thus far has been that GM (and Ford, for that matter) vehicles are fine. It's the dealerships that suck. If they're not lying about what is actually wrong with the car, they're misdiagnosing the problem because they're too lazy and/or illiterate to read the TSB that the vehicle manufacturer has so graciously provided.

GM and Ford would do well to clean house with their dealerships but they always come up with the excuse that their dealerships are franchised and so they have little control over them.

As a side note, I always make sure to have the shop manual for any car I buy and I generally never intend to darken the doorstep of a dealership once the warranty expires.

 

[Win]

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How many people want RWD and how many people want manual transmissions?

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RWD is important to me. I won't say that I would never own a FWD car, but I haven't owned one in twenty years, and there are no FWD cars on the market that I am even remotely interested in save the Pontiac G6 convertible.

The resurgence of RWD at GM has caused me to buy their passenger cars again, and now the CTS and the upcoming Pontiac/Holden Commodore are on my short list of cars to replace my aging Xj12.

I'm just one person, but GM is doing the right thing to bring me back home from overpriced Euro cars. They are definitely on the rise. It's amusing to see how that angers so many people.

 

[brianl703]

The average Toyota driver doesn't want RWD nor do they want a manual transmission.

Since some here seem to think that GM should copy what Toyota does..

 

[Win]

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I'm guessing you haven't driven a Honda. Maybe not a Toyota either.

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My daughter and son-in-law have a 2003 four door Accord that they bought new, and it had about 45K miles on it when I last drove it. The cloth on the seats looks cheap and is not wearing well, the interior plastic in the kickwells is too hard and shows lots of scratches and scuffs, the radio looks like one of those $79 Wal Mart all in one boomboxes, it has multiple rattles in both of the front doors, the vaunted VTEC four banger is gutless, and the sheet metal is so thin you can push it in with a finger. However, the automatic transmission has not yet failed.

I don't want to drive it again.

 

[brianl703]

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the radio looks like one of those $79 Wal Mart all in one boomboxes

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Trust me, the radio that Kia uses is actually worse.

 

[Win]

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the radio looks like one of those $79 Wal Mart all in one boomboxes

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Trust me, the radio that Kia uses is actually worse.

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Worse looking or worse performance? The Honda radio worked fine, it just looked cheesey.

 

[brianl703]

Worse looking. I was joking with a friend of mine that it looked like an aftermarket Panasonic from 1992 and the instruction manual probably has a wiring diagram in it.

(The instruction manual DID have a wiring diagram in it!)

 

[brianl703]

This does look rather *****:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/w...ord.24109-E.jpg

 

[alanu]

No #@$%! regarding headgaskets. They do blow very frequently.

As far as parts being expensive??? thats completely untrue. Parts for domestics and japanese imports are pretty well the same across the board. Thats oldschool thinking

Toyotas and hondas do no pay for my house mortagage. I'm not BSing about this so why would I lie about headgaskets???? I wrench so I KNOW.

 

[brianl703]

Honda's $250 oxygen sensors come to mind.

That's $50 for the oxygen sensor, and a $2 connector marked up 100x.

 

[Win]

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As far as parts being expensive??? thats completely untrue. Parts for domestics and japanese imports are pretty well the same across the board. Thats oldschool thinking

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When I replaced the starter on the Suzuki X-90 I bought for my daughter (it went out at about 30K) the replacement part was about $175 at AZ. A replacement starter for a '93 Ford Explorer that I owned at the time was about one-half that.

 

[norseman]

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I wrench so I KNOW.

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Yep, looks like it!

 

[quintdiesel]

None of the domestic companies will be on par with the foreign makes until they get out of the "planned obsolescence" rut they've gotten themselves into. Yes foreign parts are higher but you don't replace them as often. And yes I own both domestic and foreign and cuss them for frequent part change/ parts cost. It would be great if domestic parts would last longer and foreign parts were cheaper.

 

[norseman]

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None of the domestic companies will be on par with the foreign makes until they get out of the "planned obsolescence" rut they've gotten themselves into. Yes foreign parts are higher but you don't replace them as often. And yes I own both domestic and foreign and cuss them for frequent part change/ parts cost. It would be great if domestic parts would last longer and foreign parts were cheaper.

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Ummm... All I can say to this is

 

[Mokanic]

Alanu, You are wasting your time telling some people you have spent your life working on cars for a living and that qualifies you to comment on car quality. I also have worked on them for a living for over 15 years but what do we know? We must have some secret agenda for telling people what we have seen every day over and over again.

Some people have the same attitude that GM has. GM says there is no quality problem and just becouse your 5.3L knocks like a diesel does not mean your engine was poorly designed. You are just being too picky. Hey,the truck only cost you 35grand so what do you expect?

I started my repair career out with FO MO CO and they had the same mentality. Their cars were just as good as the Toyotas but the owners were just too stupid to realize it. That is why the nameplate called Taurus is dead and the nameplate called Camry is selling better than ever after 22 years. Thats why the domestics have to come up with new names for their cars every few years. People have paid hard money for a POS and wont buy another one so they just come up with a new name instead of fixing the problem. The Accord nameplate has been around since the late 70s? No need to change the name every few years like GM does cause theres a huge market that have had nothing but good service from every one of them they have purchased.

I wish GM would change and do right by the customer but they simply can't do it without a massive change in the way they make cars. It is all well and good to build cars like the Vette and the Z-28 as well as other enthusiast based rides but that won't keep you profitable in this market. With gas pushing 3.50 a gallon in some ereas;you better be able to build something that customers will want to own more than a Corolla,Civic,Camry,Accord and GM simply can't afford to do that in their present configuration.