GM Fell Behind Toyota in 2008

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I don't flip burgers, I'm a district manager and I could careless whether you see it my way. You will eventually... I will drive by in my Hyundai with 300,000 miles and wave.

It's all good.

Funny though how the cheap shots come out when you don't have a leg to stand on.




My argument has always been that the foreign transplants don't employ nearly as many Americans as the big 3 do, and that domestic quality isn't as bad as you say it is. If the 3 are to fail, there will be a lot of folks out of work that won't be put to work by the transplants. Your job will probably be affected too, so talk [censored] now. What do you mean I don't have a leg to stand on? Please explain.

 

[StevieC]

Lets analyze that...

My argument has always been that the foreign transplants don't employ nearly as many Americans as the big 3 do.

True but the Japanese and Koreans are still growing and will eventually.

...and that domestic quality isn't as bad as you say it is.

Only speaking from experiences of what I have seen and stuff my experienced dad has told/shown me, wheres your data that it isn't I'm more than willing to hear it as would other people who have lost faith in those brands.


If the 3 are to fail, there will be a lot of folks out of work that won't be put to work by the transplants. Your job will probably be affected too, so talk [censored] now.

You're right... Guess the BIG-3 should have listened to their customers and stopped dictating to them what they should be driving. Guess they should have delivered what the Japanese/Koreans are? Amazing how "foreign" automakers market share is still growing while the BIG-3's tanking? How come they can't build a better vehicle and sell it cheaper than their competitors?

What do you mean I don't have a leg to stand on? Please explain.

No Data just your beliefs and cheap shots...

 

[Ben99GT]

Stevie, I can't find facts to disprove your personal experiences, because as you say, quality studies don't mean [censored] to you.

So hard numbers don't mean anything to you, links supporting my arguments don't mean anything to you, my personal experiences don't mean anything to you, nothing I present will mean anything to you.

Let's go back through this thread.

Posts by StevieC:
#1350406 - no links, no facts
#1350497 - no links, no facts
#1350704 - no links, no facts
#1350727 - no links, no facts
#1350925 - no links, no facts, misinformation
#1350948 - no links, no facts
#1350956 - no links, no facts
#1351010 - no links, no facts
#1351029 - no links, no facts
#1351163 - no links, no facts
#1351306 - no links, no facts
#1351338 - no links, no facts
#1351352 - no links, no facts
#1351436 - no links, no facts
#1351470 - no links, no facts
#1351503 - no links, no facts
#1351540 - no links, no facts
#1351545 - no links, no facts
#1351553 - no links, a couple facts regarding the 2.7/3.0 actually, good job Stevie!
#1351560 - no links, no facts
#1351568 - no links, no facts, personal experiences, self proclaimed "victory"
#1351598 - no links, refusal of presented facts
#1351631 - no links, no facts
#1351638 - no links, no facts
#1351642 - no links, no facts, claim you have presented facts while I have not
#1351654 - no links, no facts

Simply put, you are drinking the kool-aid.

 

[StevieC]

There go the cheap shots again... Instead of posting the post#'s keep asking questions that you want data for and I will give you what I have as I have been doing.

I can't prove that I was in the driveway with my dad or that he worked for the Big-3 or is a certified Mechanic, I can't prove what I have seen with my own eyes unless they have some brain scanner I'm not aware of.

If I had hard published proof of what I have seen and experienced by all means I would give it to you.

But what I am saying is... What is your personal life experiences that show I'm wrong and that you have equal as many experiences?

1 so far and then you take cheap shots...

Also how is it with all the proof of my experiences that I have provided that go hand in hand with consumer confidence in the BIG-3 that you are the only one that refuses to accept it?

 

[cousincletus]

http://jobspercar.com/ Here's some more facts for you. I guess this is a "cheap shot" too. Quit being such a whiner.

 

[StevieC]

Not being a whiner, just calling it as it is... I'm looking at your web-link right now... BRB

 

[StevieC]

It's sad that they employ less people, but if that's what they need to make a great vehicle and good profits and be able to keep everyone employed because the company is actually generating a profit then so be it.

What good is it to employ more people then generate a loss like GM/FORD/CHRYSLER and then have to lay those people off?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's sad that they employ less people, but if that's what they need to make a great vehicle and good profits and be able to keep everyone employed because the company is actually generating a profit then so be it.

What good is it to employ more people then generate a loss like GM/FORD/CHRYSLER and then have to lay those people off?



How many Km are on your personal Kia Stevie? Isn't it only 150K? I believe above, they were poking fun at your 300,000 MILES claim (almost 500,000Km) which you are no where near correct?

A more fair comparison to your current ride would be my mom's Expedition. It's a 2000, has ~165,000Km on it now. Comparable in terms of mileage to your Kia, correct?

If this is the case, then the gentleman who brought up the maintenance history of his three Ford vehicles in comparison to your Kia/Hyundai products is perfectly entitled to his claim. He brought forth three vehicles to compare to your three vehicles. Since you cite personal experiences as being "far more factual", how are his personal experiences with his Ford products any less factual than your own with your Kia/Hyundai products other than they go against the point you are attempting to make here?

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's sad that they employ less people, but if that's what they need to make a great vehicle and good profits and be able to keep everyone employed because the company is actually generating a profit then so be it.

What good is it to employ more people then generate a loss like GM/FORD/CHRYSLER and then have to lay those people off?




You don't get it. They employ more AMERICANS than the transplants. That's American jobs per car.

 

[GMBoy]

I mean I'm sure you buy from WALMART and they import a ton of stuff from overseas, but that's ok right?

That's the problem,Stevie. Most of what we buy at Walmart(aka China mart) is imported simply because we have already lost those segments of manufacturing here in the USA. So, that can sorta give you a glimpse of the future as we lose our manufacturing base in this country.

All these countries that are ramping up their manufacturing such as China, Korea and others are quickly becoming very strong countrys with increasing wealth and buying power. Look at the increased car sales alone for China - which oddly the favorite car there is Buick, which GM has a plant there just to build Buicks for them. On the other hand, the USA is losing manufacturing and losing value and becoming a debt ridden culture. So for every dollar we throw overseas (and yes that goes for imports built in the USA) we are hurting ourselves.

Just my opinion but it just seems ironic that we are losing ground and dollar value while other countrys are beginning to prosper at our expense - and we do it by choice via our purchasing habits. So don't anyone tell me that manufacturing is not an important part of our country's economic situation.

 

[StevieC]

Yes but for how long? It's not sustainable is it... Clearly we can see that.

As for OVERK1LL, My sisters abused Hyundai Elantra has 300,000KM on it and still running strong. My mom's is 75,000KM on her Kia and I have 150,000KM on my Hyundai.

I also have a spare '95 Neon that only has 150,000KM on it and has cost me a lot of money to keep on the road.

My dad has a Chrysler Mini-Van with 300,000KM on it (Mitsubishi Engine) and everything but the engine has needed repairs and it's falling apart!

 

[GMBoy]

This could go on forever.....

Bottom line is we all are what we've been exposed to. I have had great luck with GM, Jeep and Ford Vehicles. Yeah, some little problems here and there, but these are mass produced machines and even the holier than thou imports have 'em too. Based on my life long experiences and research, I prefer American products and dislike imports. From cars to what few other things I can find, I try to buy USA whenever I can.

Stevie likes Hyundais because they've served him well. Do I like Hyundai? Of course not, but I'm not going to mock him on what works for him - even though I can think of some nice GM products that I'd love to see him in that I think are better than his Sante Fe.

As a GM employee (quality mgr) I am working my hardest to make the day come that people like Stevie and others here will turn back to GM. That day is not here yet, but it will come. It is hard to win back a customer lost, but we're getting better every day.

I'm done now

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

I'm done now

I hope not, you bring a pretty rational viewpoint to the discussion which is all the more amazing because you are in the belly of the beast.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
This could go on forever.....

Bottom line is we all are what we've been exposed to. I have had great luck with GM, Jeep and Ford Vehicles. Yeah, some little problems here and there, but these are mass produced machines and even the holier than thou imports have 'em too. Based on my life long experiences and research, I prefer American products and dislike imports. From cars to what few other things I can find, I try to buy USA whenever I can.

Stevie likes Hyundais because they've served him well. Do I like Hyundai? Of course not, but I'm not going to mock him on what works for him - even though I can think of some nice GM products that I'd love to see him in that I think are better than his Sante Fe.

As a GM employee (quality mgr) I am working my hardest to make the day come that people like Stevie and others here will turn back to GM. That day is not here yet, but it will come. It is hard to win back a customer lost, but we're getting better every day.

I'm done now

Well said and I agree with that. You choose GM I choose Hyundai and other Imports. To each our own...

I will come back when they win my confidence again... Till then I will stick with Hyundai, Honda & Toyota which IMO are better at the moment.

I'm done with this thread too...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Yes but for how long? It's not sustainable is it... Clearly we can see that.

As for OVERK1LL, My sisters abused Hyundai Elantra has 300,000KM on it and still running strong. My mom's is 75,000KM on her Kia and I have 150,000KM on my Hyundai.

I also have a spare '95 Neon that only has 150,000KM on it and has cost me a lot of money to keep on the road.

My dad has a Chrysler Mini-Van with 300,000KM on it (Mitsubishi Engine) and everything but the engine has needed repairs and it's falling apart!



OK, so to compare with the gentleman who was arguing with you, convert to miles:

Your sisters Elantra has 186,000 miles on it
Your mothers Kia now has 46,000 miles on it
Your Hyundai now has 93,000 miles on it


My Town Car has 337,000Km on it and has been fantastic. Replaced the original lower ball joints last year, and one original upper. Other than brakes and tires, it has been a VERY low maintenance car.

My mom's Expedition (to compare to your Hyundai, though it is 6 years older) has had the driver's side lower ball joint replaced, brakes done once, and one coil with 165,000Km on it now.

My dad's '03 Town Car has similar mileage to your mom's Kia, and has needed nothing.

So there are three examples to compare against your examples

 

[StevieC]

Ok.. So I'm not done with this thread yet... Can't resist.

I'm happy for you OVERK1LL but that hasn't been our experiences...

Why I have seen the problems I have seen my dad fix with BIG-3 cars? and why has the rest of the public lost confidence in the products along with myself if it isn't true?

 

[firemachine69]

That's unfortunate for you Stevie. I have had the same sort of problems... From my Toyota. If anything, there is going to have to be plenty of arse-kissing to get me to buy a new Toyota down the road, if they were ever hoping for a future sale from me...

 

[StevieC]

I will stick with the brands that are serving us well, when they are not then I will move on to something that does whether thats a BIG-3 car or not... FWIW: I don't think highly of VW at all either... Just experiences again.

To Everyone... Enjoy your vehicles, whatever you drive.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Then why I have seen the problems I have seen my dad fix with BIG-3 cars? and why has the rest of the public lost confidence in the products along with myself if it isn't true?



I am sure it is true with some vehicles. Remember, most of these comparisons are being drawn from past experiences with Toyota and Honda (primarily) who used to have a very limited number of products on the market that were very basic and very reliable. They were of course being compared to products from GM, Ford and Chrysler, all of which had huge lines of products, a number of which, had issues.

Has your dad had a 'yota frame break in half on him yet? Or an engine seize solid due to excessive sludge? Has he had a Civic catch fire due to the faulty ignition switch? How about Honda Automatic transmission failure? These are abundant issues. But they are RECENT. And like it took a long time for the market to sour against Ford Automatic Transmissions and the 3.8L head gasket issues, the GM manifold gasket problems, fuel pump failures and other excitingly fun problems, it will take the same kind of time-frame for the negative perception of the domestic brands to wear off and for people to sour on the issues they have had with their imports.

As I stated before, I have had the luck of having a family with 80 years experience with Ford products. It has been a good experience overall.

My one aunt, who's husband is a real GM guy, so that's what she was traditionally driving, now has a Hyundai SUV. Her most recent GM van (Venture) was simply horrible. This is her second Hyundai, the first was a Santa Fe, but she didn't like the payments. She has been happy with them.

My dad had never been particularly brand-loyal (it was my mom's family that was very Ford-centric), so he's owned a lot of different vehicles over the years. Our last GM was an '86 Old Custom Cruiser wagon. It had a 307. We had numerous problems with it including multiple brake-booster failures, transmission failure, excessive blow-by...etc. It was my first "real" car, and I hated it too.

My mom's dad convinced him to buy a Lincoln (the one I currently own) and we've never looked back, going on 20 years of solid Ford usage (for my dad) and we have been VERY happy. Dad still reminisces on the [censored]-pile that was that wagon.

You've had two people cite multiple good experiences with Ford products. I understand your dad was a Chrysler man. After what my good friend has been through with his Chrysler vehicles, I'd never own one either. So I DO see where you are coming from here. But there is something to be said with what WE have been saying to you, and the fact that of the Big Three, the only one not going [censored]-up right now is Ford...... The only one to be rated "on par" in terms of quality with the Japanese..... is Ford. The only one to beat-out the Japanese fuel economy with their own Hybrid implementation again... is Ford.

You KNOW I'm not a GM or Chrysler guy. I'm a self-confessed Ford nut. But when you rip on the "Big Three", you are including Ford in that picture, and those of us who are citing some "Blue Oval" examples that are equal to your own results are sort of confused as to why your Hyundai/KIA examples have merit because they are "real world" (as you personally stated as being "more valid") but ours do not?

 

[StevieC]

I didn't say that your experiences don't have merrit, just that I have seen a lot of problems with BIG-3 vehicles that discredit the experiences IMO. My dad although involved with Chrysler has serviced many makes/models of vehicles not just theirs. I would agree with you that if I was going to buy any of the BIG-3 I would choose a FORD and not the other two. FORD always IMO been the best out of the BIG-3 but I wouldn't buy one at the moment... Once the BIG-3 pull their heads out of the sand I will go back.