GM dropping Mobil 1 as Factory Fill?

[LS2JSTS]

Sounds like a step in the right direction to me, at least for all those DI engines they plan to build that like low Noack oils.

"Some formulators who have reviewed the Dexos specification say they can only achieve it through heavy use of API Group III or polyalphaolefin base oils, due to its low Noack volatility limits. GM’s Johnson has said the specification is designed around GM’s performance needs, and not to exclude other base oils."

 

[LordAbbett]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Dexos


Wow - great find! I totally missed that. I did NOT know GM changed course and dropped the royalty. Thanks - I freely admit that changes my attitude quite a bit. It makes me think GM is coming clean. Excellent!!

I read this as still a fee per gallon.
Gms market share per region
That oil Cos market share per that region
gives you an Estimate of how many gallons of dexos will be used> This as opposed to an actual tally of how many gallons X company sold.
Gmcharges a per gallon amount on that number.

 

[LordAbbett]

" Gm considers the fee a flat one in that Gm looks at market share today and then calculates what an oil marketers fee will be over the next 4 years"

lube report 3/31/10

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
And companies have also licensed fluids including Ford, Mercon for one instances. But which is it? Should GM develop an oil spec and give away to oil companies and eat the cost, meanwhile risking their engines on a claim that an oil company met the spec, or should it "get back to being profitable" and recrupate some of the costs for the spec and assure the oil claiming to meet the spec is actually tested?


Dude, that's the point I JUST made. I'm saying they already HAD specs and certifications that they charged for, just like every other freakin' auto company out there. Why did they have to go and make this MORE complicated???? They could have simply expanded what they had already... Like everybody else does!


Ford does not have an OLM, as long as OCI or a 100k mile powertrain warranty though. Ford just gives a best guess OCI.


Ummm, Ford has had OLM's since the mid 90's. They just aren't as common. My sister's BF's Explorer has one, and it's a 1996.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Came across this posted today on an HHR board I visit.....Sounds like an interesting development. I wonder if this makes M1's adoption of the Dexos standard as less likely.


#PI0215: Oil Filler Cap Identification and Changes - (Aug 23, 2010)


Subject: Oil Filler Cap Identification and Changes


Models: 2011 Cadillac CTS-V, DTS, Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT, STS

2011 Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette

Equipped with Engine VINs E, F, J, P, S, T, W, 4, 6 (RPOs L37, LSA, LAU, LD8, L37, L99, LS3, LS7, LS9)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following information may be helpful in identifying and avoiding unnecessary parts replacement at the time of Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI).

Condition/Concern
Technicians may notice during PDI that the oil filler cap on the 2011 vehicles no longer has the "Mobil 1®" logo printed on the cap.

Previous Design Oil Filler Cap

2519689.jpg

Revised 2011 Oil Filler Cap

2519692.jpg


Recommendations/Instructions
Important: DO NOT replace oil filler caps because they no longer display the Mobil 1® logo.

Starting with 2011 vehicle production, GM no longer specifies Mobil 1® as the required oil for the above vehicles. A new oil specification called Dexos I has been created, which a variety of synthetic and synthetic blend motor oils meet.

Note: For additional information on available Dexos 1 oils, please refer to PI0175.

• 2011 vehicles equipped with DOHC V6 engines (RPO LF1 and LLT) are no longer built with Mobil I logo caps. These vehicles should be serviced in accordance with the Dexos I standard.

• SRX models with the DOHC V6 (RPO LAU) engine used the "Mobil 1®" cap from the 2011 start of production to August 1, 2010.

• All Chevrolet Corvette and Camaro models along with the Cadillac DTS, CTS-V and Escalade models will continue to be built with the "Mobil 1®" style cap until November 2010.



We stopped building Escalades with the Mobil 1 cap in August.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
BMW has a LL spec for their extended drain oils that doesn't have them coming up with BIMOS - The OCI maker! As do many other Euro manufacturers.

All BMW oils are extended drain oils. BMW uses their LL specs are for all their cars.


Exactly my point! GM could easily have come up with a similar "spec" without having to create "DEXOS the Oilinator!".

BTW, I think the Euros have really "led the way" in this department for a VERY long time, especially given some of the information Doug has posted about it in the past.

I don't have any sort of grudge against GM or the idea of "DEXOS" in concept. I just think they could have implemented it in a more "conventional" way.

A higher bar for a lubricant to meet is always good if it results in a better product.

 

[mechanicx]

OLM that calculates oil life or just an OCI reminder? There's a big difference.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
OLM that calculates oil life or just an OCI reminder? There's a big difference.


Calculated oil life sir.

I do believe you may have just gained some Ford knowledge today

Also, my dad's Town Car has this as well. But it is vastly newer. I brought up the 1996 because it is the oldest (Ford) vehicle I can think of with it at this moment.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Came across this posted today on an HHR board I visit.....Sounds like an interesting development. I wonder if this makes M1's adoption of the Dexos standard as less likely.


#PI0215: Oil Filler Cap Identification and Changes - (Aug 23, 2010)


Subject: Oil Filler Cap Identification and Changes


Models: 2011 Cadillac CTS-V, DTS, Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT, STS

2011 Chevrolet Camaro, Corvette

Equipped with Engine VINs E, F, J, P, S, T, W, 4, 6 (RPOs L37, LSA, LAU, LD8, L37, L99, LS3, LS7, LS9)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following information may be helpful in identifying and avoiding unnecessary parts replacement at the time of Pre-Delivery Inspection (PDI).

Condition/Concern
Technicians may notice during PDI that the oil filler cap on the 2011 vehicles no longer has the "Mobil 1®" logo printed on the cap.

Previous Design Oil Filler Cap

2519689.jpg

Revised 2011 Oil Filler Cap

2519692.jpg


Recommendations/Instructions
Important: DO NOT replace oil filler caps because they no longer display the Mobil 1® logo.

Starting with 2011 vehicle production, GM no longer specifies Mobil 1® as the required oil for the above vehicles. A new oil specification called Dexos I has been created, which a variety of synthetic and synthetic blend motor oils meet.

Note: For additional information on available Dexos 1 oils, please refer to PI0175.

• 2011 vehicles equipped with DOHC V6 engines (RPO LF1 and LLT) are no longer built with Mobil I logo caps. These vehicles should be serviced in accordance with the Dexos I standard.

• SRX models with the DOHC V6 (RPO LAU) engine used the "Mobil 1®" cap from the 2011 start of production to August 1, 2010.

• All Chevrolet Corvette and Camaro models along with the Cadillac DTS, CTS-V and Escalade models will continue to be built with the "Mobil 1®" style cap until November 2010.



We stopped building Escalades with the Mobil 1 cap in August.


Can you share with us what the new FF is? Is GM switching away from XOM altogether?

 

[mechanicx]

The ones I've seen just calculate percent by counting down the milage from a fixed OCI. I haven't heard of Ford having an actual calculated OLM.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The ones I've seen just calculate percent by counting down the milage from a fixed OCI. I haven't heard of Ford having an actual calculated OLM.


Both of these (the Explorer and the Lincoln) vary the OCI based on how the vehicle is driven, ambient conditions and the like.

The shortest OCI on the Lincoln has been ~8,000Km in the winter. Longest has been 19,000Km in the summer with mostly highway driving. Both of these have been with the OLM at 5%.

Explorer seems to vary between 10-15,000Km to get down to the same range from what I've seen.

My buddy's Cougar has what I think you are referring to, which is an "oil change" indicator dummy light that comes on after a set number of miles/Km.

 

[LordAbbett]

What year Lincoln??
Not 89 is it?
Not disagreeing with you just wondering when

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: LordAbbett
What year Lincoln??
Not 89 is it?


God no, that's mine! LOL! It's a 2003.

A couple excerpts from the Explorer manual:

Quote:
For two of the systems reported in the system check (Engine Oil
Life Left and Fuel Level), there are two messages to describe the
status of the system. For Engine Oil Life Left, the first message
will indicate the oil change status (OK, SOON, REQUIRED) and
the second message will indicate the oil life remaining as a
percentage. If the second message is “OIL TEMP SIGNAL
ERROR”, this means that there is a problem with the oil
temperature sender system and you should contact your dealer


*SNIP*

Quote:
Change Oil Soon or Oil Change Required
One of these warning messages is displayed when the engine oil
life remaining is 5% or less. When Oil Life Left is between 5%
and 0%, the “CHANGE OIL SOON” message will be displayed.
When Oil Life Left reaches 0%, the “OIL CHANGE REQUIRED”
message will be displayed.
106
An oil change is required whenever indicated by the M/C. USE
ONLY RECOMMENDED ENGINE OILS (See Engine oil in the
Index).
The M/C will tell you the percent of oil life left during System
Check. This percentage is based on your driving history and the
time since your last oil change. In order to ensure accurate oil
life left indications, you should only perform the following OIL
CHANGE RESET Procedure after you have the oil changed.


Also relevant:

Quote:

Low Oil Level
This warning message is displayed when your engine oil level is
low. If this warning message is displayed, check the level of the
engine oil.
To check your oil:
1. Park your vehicle on level ground, turn off the engine and
wait at least 5 minutes for the oil to drain back into the oil
pan.
2. Use the dipstick to check the oil. If the level is low, add oil,
but do not overfill.
If you are parked on a steep incline, the LOW OIL LEVEL
warning may come on when you start your vehicle, even
though the oil is at the correct level.
For information about adding oil, see Engine oil in the Index.


Like many of the 5.0L equipped Ford vehicles, the Explorer had an oil-level sensor too. My '87 Mustang, and my '89 Town Car both had this. Was useful on the Mustang when I had some major oil leaks at the valve covers.

So there, you've learned something new mechanicx.

 

[LordAbbett]

Ah my wifes 2003 Lincoln Ls has the dumb OLM. 6 months or 5000miles

 

[mechanicx]

The information that I have is that Ford is just now releasing an intelligent OLM for the '11 model year. I don't believe they had an intelligent OLM like GM back then. IOLM. Sounds new to me. Maybe Ford should jump on the Dexos bandwagon like they did with Dexcool

.

 

[LordAbbett]

Now Ford listing a DEXOS requiement in their owners manual!!
that would be funny

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The information that I have is that Ford is just now releasing an intelligent OLM for the '11 model year. I don't believe they had an intelligent OLM like GM back then. IOLM. Sounds new to me. Maybe Ford should jump on the Dexos bandwagon like they did with Dexcool

.


Again, from the Explorer manual:

Quote:
The M/C will tell you the percent of oil life left during System
Check. This percentage is based on your driving history and the
time since your last oil change. In order to ensure accurate oil
life left indications, you should only perform the following OIL
CHANGE RESET Procedure after you have the oil changed.


It is calculated.

It sounds like they are improving it to be more "accurate", which I don't see as a bad thing. As it is, my dad gets freaked out when the OCI's get past 10,000Km, LOL!

And BTW, if DEXOS proves to result in better wear control and better oil in general, I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. I just think the implementation could have been better.

 

[apwillard1986]

This thread is laughable! This isn't a conspiracy, manufactures change spec all the time and certs. have always cost money.

Mobil is constantly attacked for it's factory fill marketing here. Now, one of the worlds largest auto manufactures may drop them and the manufacture is attacked. I would think this would be a popular move as SOPUS has already pinned the spec on PP.

It is interesting to note also the argument that GM should focus on paying back the government loans and making a profit before changing their oil spec. For all the holes in that argument the most glaring is the fact that they did and they have. The bailout was repaid months ago and GM is profitable.

 

[Gary Allan]

I think they should have gone with Castrol. Then it would a regenerative feedback loop. BP sells oil in cars. People buy cars. BP pays to clean up the gulf. BP employs people. People buy cars.

If the oil recovery went well enough, you would really have a dandy circle ....

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
You cannot really get Toyota T-IV, WS or their coolant either unless you buy their brand. You can only get universal fluids that claim to work as well.

Not exactly true, Mobil 3309 ATF is THE T-IV.