GM dropping Mobil 1 as Factory Fill?

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Simple math really. They make more on the Dexos scam than M1 bribes/kickbacks.

Pablo...."bribes/kickbacks"...do you have any varifiable PROOF that this has taken place?

If you do...please post it. I would be very interested in seeing it.

If you don't...please post a retraction.
___________________________________
2003 Ford Focus SE (2.3L) / 88K
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w20 / OCI: 1 year or 10K +/-
Mobil 1 Extended Performance Filter


Bribes and kickbacks involving corporate employees can at times lead to prison. Care to change that wording just a bit?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
And companies have also licensed fluids including Ford, Mercon for one instances. But which is it? Should GM develop an oil spec and give away to oil companies and eat the cost, meanwhile risking their engines on a claim that an oil company met the spec, or should it "get back to being profitable" and recrupate some of the costs for the spec and assure the oil claiming to meet the spec is actually tested?


Dude, that's the point I JUST made. I'm saying they already HAD specs and certifications that they charged for, just like every other freakin' auto company out there. Why did they have to go and make this MORE complicated???? They could have simply expanded what they had already... Like everybody else does!

Quote:
As far as Dexcool, the point is the leaky manifolds were a mistake but it was a gasket issue as much as a coolant issue. But people still go on and on about Dexcool being "deathcool" just because GM was the first to use it.


Well I'm agreeing with you on that one. There is nothing inherently wrong with OAT as far as I know. As long as the cooling system is properly designed for it. Which appears to be the issue GM had.

 

[StevieC]

I dunno I have replaced a lot of GM water pumps and GM Radiators that have nice goop inside using Death Cool changed regularly and properly because we have done all the work to these vehicles aside from the dealer during the warranty period not all of them have been like this but more than just the 60 degree V6's.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Simple math really. They make more on the Dexos scam than M1 bribes/kickbacks.

Pablo...."bribes/kickbacks"...do you have any varifiable PROOF that this has taken place?

If you do...please post it. I would be very interested in seeing it.



Common knowledge that lubricant suppliers to car companies accept lower than market prices and gifts for the "privilege" of claiming factory fill. If the claim is not sold, then it's simply low bidder.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I dunno I have replaced a lot of GM water pumps and GM Radiators that have nice goop inside using Death Cool changed regularly and properly because we have done all the work to these vehicles aside from the dealer during the warranty period not all of them have been like this but more than just the 60 degree V6's.

I believe that ties into the second part of my reply, the part about the cooling system being properly designed for it

Texaco Long Life is as far as I know an OAT, and gets used extensively in transport trucks that rack up ridiculous mileage. I've never heard of issues with them?

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
So is GM going to start having their own "GM" branded oil,kind`ve like the Genuine Nissan Ester Oil,the Toyota oil,Ford Motorcraft,etc?



The Magnusen-Moss (sp?) act says that if an auto company requires a specific oil that is only available through them, then it has to be supplied free of charge.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I dunno I have replaced a lot of GM water pumps and GM Radiators that have nice goop inside using Death Cool changed regularly and properly because we have done all the work to these vehicles aside from the dealer during the warranty period not all of them have been like this but more than just the 60 degree V6's.

And at the same time, my Corvette has 190,000km on it now, still on the original rad, original water pump, original thermostat, and every other coolant system component for that matter. I only changed the Dexcool once, a couple of years ago I did it around the 160,000km point. I didn't even do a full flush, I simply drained and refilled the radiator three times over the course of a few days. So I probably only changed 80-85% of the fluid. But yet I've had no problems at all and my coolant temperature always stays at a nice solid 190F on the highway. So I don't hate Dexcool at all.

 

[Oregoonian]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Simple math really. They make more on the Dexos scam than M1 bribes/kickbacks.

Pablo...."bribes/kickbacks"...do you have any varifiable PROOF that this has taken place?

If you do...please post it. I would be very interested in seeing it.



Common knowledge that lubricant suppliers to car companies accept lower than market prices and gifts for the "privilege" of claiming factory fill. If the claim is not sold, then it's simply low bidder.

So you don't have proof...but just 'commom knowledge'

I'm curious if this 'commom knowledge' might also apply to Amsoil ???

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
So is GM going to start having their own "GM" branded oil,kind`ve like the Genuine Nissan Ester Oil,the Toyota oil,Ford Motorcraft,etc?



The Magnusen-Moss (sp?) act says that if an auto company requires a specific oil that is only available through them, then it has to be supplied free of charge.





Yes, but it doesn't preclude them from requiring oil of an approved specification be used that is readily available from others. I don't think for one second GM is planning to only have Dexos available through their dealers or network of suppliers, that is NOT at all what Dexos is about. They do and have had for years a line of bottled oil though, nothing new there.

Magnesun DOES apply in the sense that oils that are of the "meets or exceeds specs" variety would still be suitable, with an added layer of proof piled on the consumer.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I dunno I have replaced a lot of GM water pumps and GM Radiators that have nice goop inside using Death Cool changed regularly and properly because we have done all the work to these vehicles aside from the dealer during the warranty period not all of them have been like this but more than just the 60 degree V6's.

Which vehicle are these? Dexcool does not gum up radiators or waterpumps in vehicles with a pressurized reservior that are also maintained properly.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
BMW has a LL spec for their extended drain oils that doesn't have them coming up with BIMOS - The OCI maker! As do many other Euro manufacturers.

All BMW oils are extended drain oils. BMW uses their LL specs are for all their cars.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
And companies have also licensed fluids including Ford, Mercon for one instances. But which is it? Should GM develop an oil spec and give away to oil companies and eat the cost, meanwhile risking their engines on a claim that an oil company met the spec, or should it "get back to being profitable" and recrupate some of the costs for the spec and assure the oil claiming to meet the spec is actually tested?


Dude, that's the point I JUST made. I'm saying they already HAD specs and certifications that they charged for, just like every other freakin' auto company out there. Why did they have to go and make this MORE complicated???? They could have simply expanded what they had already... Like everybody else does!


Ford does not have an OLM, as long as OCI or a 100k mile powertrain warranty though. Ford just gives a best guess OCI.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Simple math really. They make more on the Dexos scam than M1 bribes/kickbacks.

Pablo...."bribes/kickbacks"...do you have any varifiable PROOF that this has taken place?

If you do...please post it. I would be very interested in seeing it.



Common knowledge that lubricant suppliers to car companies accept lower than market prices and gifts for the "privilege" of claiming factory fill. If the claim is not sold, then it's simply low bidder.

So you don't have proof...but just 'commom knowledge'

I'm curious if this 'commom knowledge' might also apply to Amsoil ???


Amsoil does fight against crazy fees, especially royalty fees. I see no problem with an automaker charging a fee IF they are actually testing and certifying and providing data and feedback and keeping that information confidential. It costs money to do this and the costs should be paid by those wanting certification. It however shouldn't be a profit center with per gallon royalty fees. 0.36$ gallon!

 

[StevieC]

So maybe then the cooling systems are loosing pressure somewhere or there was bad batches of Dexcool then?

I wish I took pictures of the goop I saw. I will take pictures in future if I come across another one. Last one was about 2.5 years ago.

 

[mechanicx]

Dexos

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
So maybe then the cooling systems are loosing pressure somewhere or there was bad batches of Dexcool then?

I wish I took pictures of the goop I saw. I will take pictures in future if I come across another one. Last one was about 2.5 years ago.


It could very well be that Dexcool is less tolerant of cooling systems that aren't "perfect" Perhaps if the pressure isn't right or too much air gets in there, then it degrades the Dexcool faster than it should.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
So maybe then the cooling systems are loosing pressure somewhere or there was bad batches of Dexcool then?

I wish I took pictures of the goop I saw. I will take pictures in future if I come across another one. Last one was about 2.5 years ago.


Maybe the mechanics who were maintaining them missed something or just weren't that good???????

Could you please take the conversation from the late 90's LIM's and Dexcool somewhere else?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Dexos


Wow - great find! I totally missed that. I did NOT know GM changed course and dropped the royalty. Thanks - I freely admit that changes my attitude quite a bit. It makes me think GM is coming clean. Excellent!!

 

[Oregoonian]

Pablo...."bribes/kickbacks"...do you have any varifiable PROOF that this has taken place?

If you do...please post it. I would be very interested in seeing it.

[/quote]

Common knowledge that lubricant suppliers to car companies accept lower than market prices and gifts for the "privilege" of claiming factory fill. If the claim is not sold, then it's simply low bidder.[/quote]
So you don't have proof...but just 'commom knowledge'

I'm curious if this 'commom knowledge' might also apply to Amsoil ??? [/quote]

Amsoil does fight against crazy fees, especially royalty fees. I see no problem with an automaker charging a fee IF they are actually testing and certifying and providing data and feedback and keeping that information confidential. It costs money to do this and the costs should be paid by those wanting certification. It however shouldn't be a profit center with per gallon royalty fees. 0.36$ gallon![/quote]


Just to clarify...Is 'charging a fee'....a bribe or a kickback?

 

[Pablo]

No. Apples and oranges.

The royalty fees WERE (past tense) going to be for the Dexos oils.

The under market prices were for factory fill claims and name usage.