Good-at least the feds will get some of their, I mean our, money back!
GM $25.50 per share?
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Originally Posted By: pbm
If I bought GM stock could they go broke again and could I lose all of my money like the last time? I'll pass.
And sadly this is on the mind of a lot of people. Its going to be interesting....
If I bought GM stock could they go broke again and could I lose all of my money like the last time? I'll pass.
And sadly this is on the mind of a lot of people. Its going to be interesting....
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: pbm
If I bought GM stock could they go broke again and could I lose all of my money like the last time? I'll pass.
And sadly this is on the mind of a lot of people. Its going to be interesting....
Those people must be the ones sitting on the sidelines then. This issue is already oversubscribed by a margin of 5:1.
"But demand for the stock has surged. Last Friday, demand from investors was more than five times greater than the number of shares GM planned to offer, The Detroit News reported."
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101116/...-shares-to-sale
Originally Posted By: pbm
If I bought GM stock could they go broke again and could I lose all of my money like the last time? I'll pass.
And sadly this is on the mind of a lot of people. Its going to be interesting....
Those people must be the ones sitting on the sidelines then. This issue is already oversubscribed by a margin of 5:1.
"But demand for the stock has surged. Last Friday, demand from investors was more than five times greater than the number of shares GM planned to offer, The Detroit News reported."
http://www.detnews.com/article/20101116/...-shares-to-sale
Just my two cents Bill...But maybe it would be best to combine and/or create a GM Stock master thread, to avoid a number of threads I'm sure will be started over the next few days?
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Just my two cents Bill...But maybe it would be best to combine and/or create a GM Stock master thread, to avoid a number of threads I'm sure will be started over the next few days?
Excellent idea and hopefully we can catch them and merge them.
Back to the post above. People have short memories and a 5:1 proves it. I'm not going to invest in something that has already burned others and did it in a non-traditional way. If their "comeback" was the correct way and they were making money then I'd think different.
Like I said, going to be interesting.
Bill
Just my two cents Bill...But maybe it would be best to combine and/or create a GM Stock master thread, to avoid a number of threads I'm sure will be started over the next few days?
Excellent idea and hopefully we can catch them and merge them.
Back to the post above. People have short memories and a 5:1 proves it. I'm not going to invest in something that has already burned others and did it in a non-traditional way. If their "comeback" was the correct way and they were making money then I'd think different.
Like I said, going to be interesting.
Bill
Wow...now this IMO is a big mistake. They should hold onto that remaining 40% for a bit and sell it at the higher levels in the future. The average price to sell the remaining stock will go up quite a bit to break even if they do this.
"General Motors will boost the size of its common stock offering by 30% in response to demand, said the founder of a investment firm, hours after the automaker raised the stock’s target price to $32 to $33 per share..."
"The Wall Street Journal first reported the increase in common stock. Citing unnamed sources, the newspaper said the new offering will take the U.S. Treasury’s stake in GM to close to 26%, from 61%. The original stock offering would have left the Treasury with ownership of slightly more than 40% of GM."
"General Motors will boost the size of its common stock offering by 30% in response to demand, said the founder of a investment firm, hours after the automaker raised the stock’s target price to $32 to $33 per share..."
"The Wall Street Journal first reported the increase in common stock. Citing unnamed sources, the newspaper said the new offering will take the U.S. Treasury’s stake in GM to close to 26%, from 61%. The original stock offering would have left the Treasury with ownership of slightly more than 40% of GM."
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Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris
I sure do wish they would make whole all those pension plans that got stuck with Old GM. It is not required, but it is a right thing to do. It would go a long way to repairing bridges with American consumers.
I don't understand why you and others keep posting this same point. It wasnt the pensioners that got stuck with old GM, it was the bond and stock holders for the most part that got shafted. Are you referring to outside investor retiree funds?
The retirees, the UAW and the benefits packages including VEBA were all in fact protected throughout the BK. While it is true to say that GM is currently underfunded in that respect, to the tune of 26.4 billion. It is also true that GM gave the UAW/VEBA a near 20% stake in the company to offset and fund those commitments. Aside and on top of those shares they are issueing preferred shares that will immediately make a payment to the UAW/VEBA debt.
"GM also increased the proposed sale of its Series B convertible preferred stock from 60 million to 80 million shares. Proceeds from the expanded preferred share sales, which will sell for $50 each, are expected to increase $3 billion to $4 billion, GM said.
GM had previously said it would put proceeds from the preferred shares toward a $4 billion contribution to its U.S. hourly and salaried pension plans, along with 70 million common shares. GM’s worldwide pensions were underfunded by $26.4 billion on June 30."...DetNews
They are doing the "right thing" by THEIR retirees and that commitment. Not so much for outside investors or funds though, the bondholders only got 10% equity stake, stockholders...less than 0. Outside pension plans and retirees that were left holding stock at the end lost, and ftr, I'm one of them. I sold most of my shares as it went down but there was a good size chunk I refused to sell, never believing that the Feds would pull off their hostile takeover. Frankly though, what quality fund manager had retiree money in GM since at least 2005. They had lost money for five straight years. Those funds have bigger problems than GM, and that is their lame managers apparently.
I sure do wish they would make whole all those pension plans that got stuck with Old GM. It is not required, but it is a right thing to do. It would go a long way to repairing bridges with American consumers.
I don't understand why you and others keep posting this same point. It wasnt the pensioners that got stuck with old GM, it was the bond and stock holders for the most part that got shafted. Are you referring to outside investor retiree funds?
The retirees, the UAW and the benefits packages including VEBA were all in fact protected throughout the BK. While it is true to say that GM is currently underfunded in that respect, to the tune of 26.4 billion. It is also true that GM gave the UAW/VEBA a near 20% stake in the company to offset and fund those commitments. Aside and on top of those shares they are issueing preferred shares that will immediately make a payment to the UAW/VEBA debt.
"GM also increased the proposed sale of its Series B convertible preferred stock from 60 million to 80 million shares. Proceeds from the expanded preferred share sales, which will sell for $50 each, are expected to increase $3 billion to $4 billion, GM said.
GM had previously said it would put proceeds from the preferred shares toward a $4 billion contribution to its U.S. hourly and salaried pension plans, along with 70 million common shares. GM’s worldwide pensions were underfunded by $26.4 billion on June 30."...DetNews
They are doing the "right thing" by THEIR retirees and that commitment. Not so much for outside investors or funds though, the bondholders only got 10% equity stake, stockholders...less than 0. Outside pension plans and retirees that were left holding stock at the end lost, and ftr, I'm one of them. I sold most of my shares as it went down but there was a good size chunk I refused to sell, never believing that the Feds would pull off their hostile takeover. Frankly though, what quality fund manager had retiree money in GM since at least 2005. They had lost money for five straight years. Those funds have bigger problems than GM, and that is their lame managers apparently.
Having bailed out GM, the fed is not going to allow any failure. And not especially with a 26% ownership in it. Its a government backed asset now. GM needs to retain at least a strong paper profitability until its fully public - and why would it now suddenly even be allowed to flounder?
GM is also a much leaner and streamlined entity now with so many divisions eliminated. I don't agree with every choice (like keeping Cadillac but killing Saturn), but I think the streamlining will help maintain profitability and equity growth as well. It also needs to for the government to recover sufficient bailout cash on their existing stake after the IPO.
-Spyder
GM is also a much leaner and streamlined entity now with so many divisions eliminated. I don't agree with every choice (like keeping Cadillac but killing Saturn), but I think the streamlining will help maintain profitability and equity growth as well. It also needs to for the government to recover sufficient bailout cash on their existing stake after the IPO.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
"The automaker is getting orders from large institutional investors who are likely to be long-term shareholders at about $32 a share..."
Are these the speculators you are referring to?
The biggest portion by far of this IPO and the remaining shares will be purchsed by large stake holders like the institutional investors, sovereign wealth funds, public and private pension funds...these aren't typically speculators by nature. The speculators will be busy to be sure, but for the most part they will be feeding on the fringes of the real money.
Luckily, this is one of those topics where the truth will soon be revealed...time will tell.
Take a Look!
"Avoid like the PLAGUE"
"The automaker is getting orders from large institutional investors who are likely to be long-term shareholders at about $32 a share..."
Are these the speculators you are referring to?
The biggest portion by far of this IPO and the remaining shares will be purchsed by large stake holders like the institutional investors, sovereign wealth funds, public and private pension funds...these aren't typically speculators by nature. The speculators will be busy to be sure, but for the most part they will be feeding on the fringes of the real money.
Luckily, this is one of those topics where the truth will soon be revealed...time will tell.
Take a Look!
"Avoid like the PLAGUE"
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http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/17/news/companies/gm_ipo_pricing/index.htm
$20.1bn IPO. $33 a share. Not bad. Lets see where it goes over the next couple years.
$20.1bn IPO. $33 a share. Not bad. Lets see where it goes over the next couple years.
I certainly would not invest in GM no matter how low their IPO; instead, I would place my money in a more stable category such as consumer staples that will not run the risk of another financial disaster.
GM is too unstable and will be for quite a number of years. The Ford situation again was different. I would stay away from this like the plague and invest your money into something more stable and not so dependant on the Govt and taxpayers to stay afloat.
Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
GM is too unstable and will be for quite a number of years. The Ford situation again was different. I would stay away from this like the plague and invest your money into something more stable and not so dependant on the Govt and taxpayers to stay afloat.
It's all about risk Vs. reward. I wouldn't sink my life savings in it, but I think it does have some up side for a long term investment.
GM is too unstable and will be for quite a number of years. The Ford situation again was different. I would stay away from this like the plague and invest your money into something more stable and not so dependant on the Govt and taxpayers to stay afloat.
It's all about risk Vs. reward. I wouldn't sink my life savings in it, but I think it does have some up side for a long term investment.
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
GM is too unstable and will be for quite a number of years. The Ford situation again was different. I would stay away from this like the plague and invest your money into something more stable and not so dependant on the Govt and taxpayers to stay afloat.
It's all about risk Vs. reward. I wouldn't sink my life savings in it, but I think it does have some up side for a long term investment.
I sort of agree. Its not a "blue chip" stock, even though this is how automotive industries have classically been categorized. Nor is it entirely speculative - not after so much streamlining, government investment, and the stake the fed will retain in it.
I would call it medium risk and add some to a balanced and diversified portfolio, with about a 2-5 year expectation of stock retention. It may turn out to be worth holding for longer, but I wouldn't take a dip over the next couple years as a panic order to dump it either. That's just my guess as to about when to hope a mid-risk stock like this to begin to attain enough value to offset the risk and have a longer term idea of how it will perform over the long haul and whether to keep or sell then.
GM is arguably better positioned, from an investment point of view, to pay off in such an interval than was Ford when its stock was at $2 a share.
GM is technologically sound, established in multiple markets, has the largest market share in NA, is a government backed asset, is capitalizing on new lower labor costs in domestic production, and has streamlined its divisions to a more easily manageable number. Its also able to postpone any payout on current liabilities for at least that 2-5 year period which will also boost profitability over that interval, and correspondingly, share value.
I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it either, but it has it place if the investor is diversified and willing to inject some risk into his balance.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
GM is too unstable and will be for quite a number of years. The Ford situation again was different. I would stay away from this like the plague and invest your money into something more stable and not so dependant on the Govt and taxpayers to stay afloat.
It's all about risk Vs. reward. I wouldn't sink my life savings in it, but I think it does have some up side for a long term investment.
I sort of agree. Its not a "blue chip" stock, even though this is how automotive industries have classically been categorized. Nor is it entirely speculative - not after so much streamlining, government investment, and the stake the fed will retain in it.
I would call it medium risk and add some to a balanced and diversified portfolio, with about a 2-5 year expectation of stock retention. It may turn out to be worth holding for longer, but I wouldn't take a dip over the next couple years as a panic order to dump it either. That's just my guess as to about when to hope a mid-risk stock like this to begin to attain enough value to offset the risk and have a longer term idea of how it will perform over the long haul and whether to keep or sell then.
GM is arguably better positioned, from an investment point of view, to pay off in such an interval than was Ford when its stock was at $2 a share.
GM is technologically sound, established in multiple markets, has the largest market share in NA, is a government backed asset, is capitalizing on new lower labor costs in domestic production, and has streamlined its divisions to a more easily manageable number. Its also able to postpone any payout on current liabilities for at least that 2-5 year period which will also boost profitability over that interval, and correspondingly, share value.
I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it either, but it has it place if the investor is diversified and willing to inject some risk into his balance.
-Spyder
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After the way the investors got screwed in the bankruptcy and the union's got a good deal, I'm surprised anyone is lining up to buy their stock.
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