qadsan, thanks for the heads-up on the HDEO formulation changes that are coming...don't want to give up my Delo 15-40, but, I'll try to catch the change when it occurs so I'll be getting a fluid that works well in my application.
Glazed Clutch Plates
- Thread starter Ron Jeremy
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Some mfg's still do recommend using a 10w-30.
And I would venture to say that there isn't a one of them on the shelf that will cause a clutch to slip.
Falling victom to marketing hype is embarrasing, I realise.
rokky, instead of going off half cocked, why don't you do a little reading and see what thousands of folks have been using with great success in motorcycle wet clutch situations?
Folks with a true passion for the topic, such as Steve Unruh have spent countless hours and hundreds of dollars, and shown time and time agian that the hype of moto specific oils is just that, unsubstantiated hype, with the bottom line being increased profits.
And I would venture to say that there isn't a one of them on the shelf that will cause a clutch to slip.
Falling victom to marketing hype is embarrasing, I realise.
rokky, instead of going off half cocked, why don't you do a little reading and see what thousands of folks have been using with great success in motorcycle wet clutch situations?
Folks with a true passion for the topic, such as Steve Unruh have spent countless hours and hundreds of dollars, and shown time and time agian that the hype of moto specific oils is just that, unsubstantiated hype, with the bottom line being increased profits.
I want more information from Ron Jeremy as this thread is going off topic or "half cocked".
What kind of oil and weight was his friend using?
What automotive oil did he change to?
When did he notice a slipping clutch?
Let's get to the bottom of this.
What kind of oil and weight was his friend using?
What automotive oil did he change to?
When did he notice a slipping clutch?
Let's get to the bottom of this.
I'm convinced Jaybird.
I'm going to run out and buy the best energy conserving car oil I can find on your say so. And the more moly the better.
Are you going to warranty the clutches for me?
I bet not. My potential clutch problems would be wrote off due to abuse, old oil, and old age.
I understand the atv in question is a late model Suzuki. What oil was he using before he switched to automotive oil?
I'm going to run out and buy the best energy conserving car oil I can find on your say so. And the more moly the better.
Are you going to warranty the clutches for me?
I bet not. My potential clutch problems would be wrote off due to abuse, old oil, and old age.
I understand the atv in question is a late model Suzuki. What oil was he using before he switched to automotive oil?
rokky, if you stick with traditional motorcycle oil weights (40- and 50-weight) they will not qualify as Energy Conserving--the SAE believes them to be thick enough to reduce car mileage a bit. So, our discussion isn't really about Energy Conserving, but about moly. And, as we've seen, no one has been able to conclusively show that moly causes clutch problems in a good condition clutch.
Of course, if you really believe that moly can cause problems you could do the forum a huge service by running back-to-back tests between moly and non-moly oils...
Of course, if you really believe that moly can cause problems you could do the forum a huge service by running back-to-back tests between moly and non-moly oils...
A valid forensic investigation would require us to have the actual parts and products in question avaialabe for insepction at the time of the incident.
We can get some of the info from anecdotes, but to make a bottom line conclusion, we need more.
We can get some of the info from anecdotes, but to make a bottom line conclusion, we need more.
I ran redline for 5,000 or so miles. It's loaded with moly, not just a little like many oils. around the 5,000 mile range that I'd been running it, about 2nd or 3rd oil change. I started feeling the hint of slippage ever so slight intermittantly, 5th gear under hard throttle uphill and sometimes on a flat. I rode it that way for a couple weeks till I fiqured out whether or not it was in my head as it wasnt total failure just intermittant slight slip here and there.
I went back to known positive clutch oil, and never had any further issue.
Now that clutch had 40,000 miles on it. but it never needed any adjustment. most your oils have less than 100 moly if any, redline has 6 times that amount.
I'm sure it will do fine in a really stout clutch
I went back to known positive clutch oil, and never had any further issue.
Now that clutch had 40,000 miles on it. but it never needed any adjustment. most your oils have less than 100 moly if any, redline has 6 times that amount.
I'm sure it will do fine in a really stout clutch
Well, Terry Dyson recommended that I use Red Line in my motorcycle. He's not a chemist, but he is a professional tribologist with tons of experience and he's well aware of the high levels of moly in Red Line oils. That's good enough for me.
What you say makes sense Mackelroy. Lots of variables to consider including equipment and how much friction modifiers present.
I have been lucky in the last year and a half or so to have a chemist contact working for a major oil company.
He basically told me the same thing about moly as stated here at bobistheoilguy. He also said that molybdenum based friction modifiers are not suitable for wet clutches. In fact, he was surprised that Mobil1 motorcycle oils had any at all.
So, who should I believe? Jaybird or a chemist in the business?
So, if any chemists or other professionals in the oil manufacturing business want to enlighten me further, I would appreciate it.
I have been lucky in the last year and a half or so to have a chemist contact working for a major oil company.
He basically told me the same thing about moly as stated here at bobistheoilguy. He also said that molybdenum based friction modifiers are not suitable for wet clutches. In fact, he was surprised that Mobil1 motorcycle oils had any at all.
So, who should I believe? Jaybird or a chemist in the business?
So, if any chemists or other professionals in the oil manufacturing business want to enlighten me further, I would appreciate it.
It's not just moly according some manuafactures. Rotax also cites our beloved diesel oils as an oil to avoid, one of the reasons is clutch slippage. Aprilla had an article that basically stated ALL AW and FM additives contribute to the problem.
http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/serviceinfo/18ul97r5.pdf
http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/serviceinfo/18ul97r5.pdf
I have over 30 year's of Riding *** bikes/ATV and Harleys and in those years and have never had a clutch problem using Diesel oils. In my many years working for various motorcycle companies and dealerships I can only recall one time were clutch slippage accrued because of an oil problem. The guy put STP in his YZ125 motocross.
Abuse and lack of proper adjustment or not changing the oil when needed are the biggest reasons.
I am keeping an eye on sunruh's post’s here. He is trying different oils in his dirt bike. Now that’s abuse of any oil. From his post it sounds like Chevron 20w50 is the best bang for the buck so far. Of course we are talking the transmission and clutch being use by that oil not the engine IMO I would bet that oil would do fine in engine/clutch/trans application also.
I am also sold on the use of L/C and FP60 I have had excellent results using both in my bikes and cars/trucks.
Abuse and lack of proper adjustment or not changing the oil when needed are the biggest reasons.
I am keeping an eye on sunruh's post’s here. He is trying different oils in his dirt bike. Now that’s abuse of any oil. From his post it sounds like Chevron 20w50 is the best bang for the buck so far. Of course we are talking the transmission and clutch being use by that oil not the engine IMO I would bet that oil would do fine in engine/clutch/trans application also.
I am also sold on the use of L/C and FP60 I have had excellent results using both in my bikes and cars/trucks.
As mentioned before. Clean the clutch, check stack height, reinstall.
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