Gladiator 2020 3.6 Pentastar (Import from US to Germany) Oils and Advice

[Trav]

That model is not sold in Germany where it will be operating in. Extended high speed operation may benefit from a 0w30 IMO
Don't get offended all I ask for the link to the info from FCA. My friend and bitog member has a late model jeep Rubicon Penastar that originally spec xw20 then they allowed xw30. I dont know the whole story but he says it runs better with the xw30.

 

[PlayfulBird]

Look everyone I do not want an argument, happy for a good ol debate.

And we will figure out what we will actually do.

I have heard that from people in Dubai one of which rents out Jeeps to more capable and adventurous Tourists to go explore the desert who use 0/5w30

lets see the testing and criteria used

That is one of the issues I have found with a lot of new developments.
It used to be very important that manufacturers backed up their claims and recommendations. They would clearly outline the tests. Were and when what was tested how.

I am not saying 0w20 is bad or 0w30 is bad or 5w30 is bad etc......
Just that there are many manufacturers who test not necessary for reliability sake but for the sake of meeting certain criteria like emission etc and still be reliable enough. Also it is not really advertised how what was tested.
I have seen some testing beds at the fca ram facilities and know everything is tested well, my question is just what was the mission statement and the outcome.
Look at the grenadier publicity it is all about showing hey we beat the truck in all these conditions and it has now done a million km and it is awesome. Yes that is PR but still they still make a show of it.

 

[PlayfulBird]

JK Wrangler has a different version of the Pentastar than the JL or JT

That is why I wrote I would love to pick their brains, why was what changed. I know mpg and emmissions must have been high on the list...

 

[demarpaint]

That model is not sold in Germany where it will be operating in. Extended high speed operation may benefit from a 0w30 IMO
Don't get offended all I ask for the link to the info from FCA. My friend and bitog member has a late model jeep Rubicon Penastar that originally spec xw20 then they allowed xw30. I dont know the whole story but he says it runs better with the xw30.

I've been using a 30 grade oil in mine since about 60 miles, granted it's a 2016. Truth be told I won't be switching back to xw20, ever. A few people I have a lot of respect for, including yourself, and a couple of Jeep A-techs told me to stick with the 30 grade. Opinions vary, but my homework pointed me to a 30 grade. IIRC you sent me a link from XOM where they specifically spec'd 30 grade oil for that engine in Germany, but that was a few years back and I can't find it.

 

[Trav]

The only way to get close to the real answer is by looking at the specs for oil pump, bearings and crankshaft, if they are the same then it is more than likely a multigrade engine that can run on lighter oils in most situations. Seeing as the vehicle is not sold in the OP's market why would they have a spec for it there and how can it be a "worldwide" spec if the vehicle is not sold worldwide.

 

[Trav]

I've been using a 30 grade oil in mine since about 60 miles, granted it's a 2016. Truth be told I won't be switching back to xw20, ever. A few people I have a lot of respect for, including yourself, and a couple of Jeep A-techs told me to stick with the 30 grade. Opinions vary, but my homework pointed me to a 30 grade. IIRC you sent me a link from XOM where they specifically spec'd 30 grade oil for that engine in Germany, but that was a few years back and I can't find it.

I remember you and I doing almost endless research about this on the phone, they did made a jeep that used the same engine in Graz and spec was xw30, I don't honestly remember if is it was a 5w30 or 0w30.

 

[PlayfulBird]

The only way to get close to the real answer is by looking at the specs for oil pump, bearings and crankshaft, if they are the same then it is more than likely a multigrade engine that can run on lighter oils in most situations. Seeing as the vehicle is not sold in the OP's market why would they have a spec for it there and how can it be a "worldwide" spec if the vehicle is not sold worldwide.

I do believe they did sell the 3.6 in the Grand Cherokee wk2. Now it is only the 4xe on the official Jeep website

 

[demarpaint]

I remember you and I doing almost endless research about this on the phone, they did made a jeep that used the same engine in Graz and spec was xw30, I don't honestly remember if is it was a 5w30 or 0w30.

Yes we discussed it a lot, and you sent me a link. I had it bookmarked, did some cleaning up of bookmarks about a year or so ago and probably deleted it. IIRC it might have been ESP 5W30, your memory is better than mine buddy.

 

[IndyFan]

That model is not sold in Germany where it will be operating in. Extended high speed operation may benefit from a 0w30 IMO
Don't get offended all I ask for the link to the info from FCA. My friend and bitog member has a late model jeep Rubicon Penastar that originally spec xw20 then they allowed xw30. I dont know the whole story but he says it runs better with the xw30.

I think extended high speed operation is the easiest thing you could do with that engine. It's a Jeep, not a Ferrari. It's got the aero of a barn door. It can cruise all day at 90mph, but at 12mpg. It's governed at 99mph top end and could run there all day, too. Nobody wants to do that it a Jeep. It is not DI, nor does it have forced induction. It is VERY easy on oil. My wife idles hers for long periods (drives me nuts) and it hasn't shown any sign of fuel dilution.

I've driven twice to Moab (22-23 hours each way), to Maine, and to Florida and back, 75-90mph and sometimes against strong headwinds for much of the way. It never broke a sweat on 0w20.

Instead of an oil with a bunch of VI in it to stretch it from 0 to 30, I like Mobil 1 EP 0w20. It has mostly PAO base oil and will handle that kind of life very well. Plus, in Germany, there's a great selection of high quality 0w20's.

Again this engine is NOT hard on oil. I've run OCI's out to 8k miles with a mix of long highway runs, hours upon hours of rock crawling in 100 degree temps, (AC on the whole time) and VERY dusty conditions. So dusty that I changed the air filter before the drive home. The UOA came back with the oil still in great condition. I have done most of those trips on Mobil 1 EP. The trip to Maine, which included both long highway runs and days of 0ff-road crawling, was done on Shell Rotella Gas Truck, which I don't belive is as stout, but it handled it with ease and showed very well on the UOA.

I'm in 3 Jeep clubs and we've got a number of gen 1 Pentastars achieving the 300k mark with no issues beyond good maintenance. Most have done it on 5w20 and used the OLM for OCI's, which put them between 7500 and 9000 miles. I'd say the most popular combo is Valvoline Advanced Synthetic and Mopar oil filters. But they all have their favorite oils by which they swear. We now have a majority of JL/JT Jeeps with the newer engine, but they haven't racked up the miles yet. But with mine and a few others pushing past 4 years old, not a single one has had a problem. We're talking many Jeeps. Probably a hundred or so. Mine is the only one that had an issue (see below about crankshaft position sensor gaskets) and it was very minor and probably could have llived forever without correction.

There is just no reason to break a sweat over oil weight on these things. Just run a good quality 0w20 with a brand that gives you confidence. They are built to last a long time, even if giving them a royal beating off-road every now and then.

By the way, @OIL_UDDER advises that you mash the gas frequently on these things and get them to high rpm. He said the oil in the valve stems will evaporate out if you drive like a granny for long distances and many hours. Running it hard splashes oil up in there. So the harder you run them the better off they are. That'll be far more important than sweating over viscosity. He should know. He designed the Gen 1 Pentastar.

A few tips: Don't over-tighten the oil filter cap. 18ft lbs is the spec. keep it there and you won't crack the housing and cause a leak that drips in a way that makes you think it is a rear main seal.. Gen 1 Pentastars are famous for that. I've not heard of it happening to the PUG in the JL/JT, but the design looks very similar. Spark plugs are good for at least 100k. When changing them, use OEM (Champion, I believe). I've not known anyone to see issues with them at lower mileage. And if you ever see oil film on the valve covers, it is from cam position sensor gaskets. Get a set of those and hang onto them. They are cheap insurance and an easy fix. That's the only problem I've seen or experienced with a PUG, and it is minor. And make sure your air filter housing is properly fastened. It can be easy to pinch the rubber seal on the filter and not realize it.

Finally, probably the best thing you can do for longevity is turn off the ESS. A Tazer JL programmer will let you shut it off once and forget it. Oil_Udder advises that ESS will wear the bearings much more quickly. It's off on both of my JL's, permanently. Even the E-torque. (Sad, because it works so well with that setup.) Again, this matters MUCH more than worrying about a 30 weight oil.

Just my 2 cents, but I live with 2 of these engines.

 

[Skippy722]

I think extended high speed operation is the easiest thing you could do with that engine. It's a Jeep, not a Ferrari. It's got the aero of a barn door. It can cruise all day at 90mph, but at 12mpg. It's governed at 99mph top end and could run there all day, too. Nobody wants to do that it a Jeep. It is not DI, nor does it have forced induction. It is VERY easy on oil. My wife idles hers for long periods (drives me nuts) and it hasn't shown any sign of fuel dilution.

I've driven twice to Moab (22-23 hours each way), to Maine, and to Florida and back, 75-90mph and sometimes against strong headwinds for much of the way. It never broke a sweat on 0w20.

Instead of an oil with a bunch of VI in it to stretch it from 0 to 30, I like Mobil 1 EP 0w20. It has mostly PAO base oil and will handle that kind of life very well. Plus, in Germany, there's a great selection of high quality 0w20's.

This engine is NOT hard on oil. It is doesn't have DI or forced induction. I've run OCI's out to 8k miles with a mix of long highway runs, hours upon hours of rock crawling in 100 degree temps, (AC on the whole time) and VERY dusty conditions. So dusty that I changed the air filter before the drive home. The UOA came back with the oil still in great condition. I have done most of those trips on Mobil 1 EP. The trip to Maine, which included both long highway runs and days of 0ff-road crawling, was done on Shell Rotella Gas Truck, which I don't belive is as stout, but it handled it with ease and showed very well on the UOA.

I'm in 3 Jeep clubs and we've got a number of gen 1 Pentastars achieving the 300k mark with no issues beyond good maintenance. Most have done it on 5w20 and used the OLM for OCI's, which put them between 7500 and 9000 miles. I'd say the most popular combo is Valvoline Advanced Synthetic and Mopar oil filters. But they all have their favorite oils by which they swear.

There is just no reason to break a sweat over oil weight on these things. Just run a good quality 0w20 with a brand that gives you confidence. They are built to last a long time, even if giving them a royal beating off-road every now and then.

By the way, @OIL_UDDER advises that you mash the gas frequently on these things and get them to high rpm. He said the oil in the valve stems will evaporate out if you drive like a granny for long distances and many hours. Running it hard splashes oil up in there. So the harder you run them the better off they are. That'll be far more important than sweating over viscosity. He should know. He designed the Gen 1 Pentastar.

I tell my wife this. I don’t think she’s ever brought it above 4,000rpm… I drove it for a week and she commented on how smooth it was idling and asked what I did to it. Just blew the cob webs out!

But yeah… they’re not hard nor picky on oil, the hottest I ever saw in my 300 was 230F on the oil and I was driving it HARD (had an emergency at home while I was at work 30 minutes away, pulled into the driveway with the brakes smoking a bit kind of hard driving ). If you’re really worried, throw some 0w40 in it. Granted it wasn’t the PUG 3.6 in my 300, but mine didn’t care at all…. Walmart was out of 0w20 and 5w20 but had 15qts of Castrol Edge 0w40 so that’s what both got.

 

[PlayfulBird]

ESS

is off first thing i did is buy a Tazer mini
The stupid thing is now I get a abs warning when I put her in gear, I feel a short brake resistnance3 and it loosens, until the vehicles starts rolling then all warnings go away and it runs fine.
*
Also the AUX battery is giving me ****. Battery place does not want to take it out to test it, don't know how to test it in the vehicle. Only option is to put the car (off) in a shop to charge and recondition the batteries as a unit or I go through taking out the tipm to get it out and bring it to them
currently no space to work on the truck, sigh.

 

[IndyFan]

is off first thing i did is buy a Tazer mini
The stupid thing is now I get a abs warning when I put her in gear, I feel a short brake resistnance3 and it loosens, until the vehicles starts rolling then all warnings go away and it runs fine.
*
Also the AUX battery is giving me ****. Battery place does not want to take it out to test it, don't know how to test it in the vehicle. Only option is to put the car (off) in a shop to charge and recondition the batteries as a unit or I go through taking out the tipm to get it out and bring it to them
currently no space to work on the truck, sigh.

Yeah, those aux batteries can be finicky. I swapped both my aux and main batteries at the 3 year mark. I went with an AGM for the Aux and an Odyssey high performance AGM for the main. No issues so far, but I'll be taking a preventative approach with that Aux. I'll replace it every 4 years.

Autozone sells the AGM Die Hard aux battery. They are a small pain to replace. Some guys take the fender liner out and go in from the bottom. I went through the top because I didn't want to lose or break any fender clips. It wasn't too bad, though. You just have to take off a couple fuse boxes.

I wish that ESS was an option. I'd have never ordered it.

 

[PlayfulBird]

I wish that ESS was an option. I'd have never ordered it.

In Eurrope they are forcing a speed limiter onto people now. New vehicles that are developed 2022 and all vehicles built 2024 will need to have it in them the same as ESS. Uses ur gps to check ur speed vs speed limit data and will auto limit it. It is supposed to be disabled if it senses a overtaking maneuver or they say there will be a button like ESS
Last thing anyone asked for for sure. We have so few deaths considering the crazy speeds and **** on the Autobahn, but not good enough so now a gadget is supposed to help..... HAIYA. i put leg down

 

[demarpaint]

@IndyFan interesting comments about the ESS. It reinforces my beliefs about the system, I'd disable it on the dealers lot before I took the vehicle home. It's a darn shame in order to get the 3.6L with an automatic transmission in a new Wrangler you're forced to take eTorque. ESS I'm able to deal with, eTorque is something I don't want, and is stopping me from trading my 2016 in. I want no part of the 4 cylinder, diesel, or hemi, I really liked the 3.6L. I better hide now.

 

[PlayfulBird]

@IndyFan interesting comments about the ESS. It reinforces my beliefs about the system, I'd disable it on the dealers lot before I took the vehicle home. It's a darn shame in order to get the 3.6L with an automatic transmission in a new Wrangler you're forced to take eTorque. ESS I'm able to deal with, eTorque is something I don't want, and is stopping me from trading my 2016 in. I want no part of the 4 cylinder, diesel, or hemi, I really liked the 3.6L. I better hide now.

We love the 3.6 and are happy that we don't have to deal with etorq etc.
I am still learning about engines, Carly is a Mechatronics Engineer and gets most of what we have, and she also does not want to touch the e systems yet.
I can't say an old hemi doesn't talk to me, but the newer the more complicated everything is getting. Cylinder deactivation and and and....
They (Jeep) are not allow to disable these systems here luckily there are solutions.

 

[demarpaint]

We love the 3.6 and are happy that we don't have to deal with etorq etc.
I am still learning about engines, Carly is a Mechatronics Engineer and gets most of what we have, and she also does not want to touch the e systems yet.
I can't say an old hemi doesn't talk to me, but the newer the more complicated everything is getting. Cylinder deactivation and and and....
They (Jeep) are not allow to disable these systems here luckily there are solutions.

I should have excluded the hemi in my comments above. I really have no problem with the hemi, having one in a Wrangler doesn't interest me.

 

[PlayfulBird]

I should have excluded the hemi in my comments above. I really have no problem with the hemi, having one in a Wrangler doesn't interest me.

A lot of people here complain about not enough power or the mpg, we love the 3.6, I even think it sounds really good when you put you foot down. It is super silent but when it shifts down and you merge onto the Autobahn you get a very good sound
I love our 3.0 CRD from Merc in the Grand Cherokee 2006, super solid, but the Gladiator just makes you smile.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

I'd go with Liqui Moly:

https://products.liqui-moly.com/oils/top-tec-6600-0w-20-1.html

Special Tec AA 0W-20

Σύγχρονο λεπτόρρευστο λιπαντικό κινητήρων κορυφαίας κατηγορίας, μελετημένο ειδικά για χρήση όλο το έτος σε ασιατικά και αμερικάνικα αυτοκίνητα. Ο συνδυασμός μη συμβατικών βασικών λιπαντικών τεχνολογίας σύνθεσης σε συνδυασμό με τα νεώτερα πρόσθετα εγγυάται ένα λιπαντικό κινητήρων, που προστατεύει...

products.liqui-moly.com

 

[PlayfulBird]

I'd go with Liqui Moly:

https://products.liqui-moly.com/oils/top-tec-6600-0w-20-1.html

Special Tec AA 0W-20

Σύγχρονο λεπτόρρευστο λιπαντικό κινητήρων κορυφαίας κατηγορίας, μελετημένο ειδικά για χρήση όλο το έτος σε ασιατικά και αμερικάνικα αυτοκίνητα. Ο συνδυασμός μη συμβατικών βασικών λιπαντικών τεχνολογίας σύνθεσης σε συνδυασμό με τα νεώτερα πρόσθετα εγγυάται ένα λιπαντικό κινητήρων, που προστατεύει...

products.liqui-moly.com

I get that. Good stuff and very available here.

So far, if I will stick to the manual recommendation (i was advised to as the little guaranties we have may be linked to this), I am tending towards Ravenol anyway. I think the Ravenol has a great Noack and Flashpoint though. Also a medium to large German business. We try to support US made and locally made stuff, ofcourse within reason and yeah we know stuff gets imported anyway

 

[IndyFan]

@IndyFan interesting comments about the ESS. It reinforces my beliefs about the system, I'd disable it on the dealers lot before I took the vehicle home. It's a darn shame in order to get the 3.6L with an automatic transmission in a new Wrangler you're forced to take eTorque. ESS I'm able to deal with, eTorque is something I don't want, and is stopping me from trading my 2016 in. I want no part of the 4 cylinder, diesel, or hemi, I really liked the 3.6L. I better hide now.

FWIW, that Etorque works extremely well. I'm no electrician, but I'd guess the power output on that generator is massive. So running a winch or whatever won't make it break a sweat. I've also not heard of anyone having any issue with it. Seems pretty stout.

That said, there are a couple of guys that claim they know of Rams with the 3.6 Etorque who are pushing well past 100k and so far so good. But I'm keeping ours for as long as we can buy gasoline, so I'm willing to sacrifice 1mpg in favor of low bearing wear.

My wife now has about 13k trouble-free miles on hers. I just put a Tazer JL Mini on it and the ESS is now off unless selected. So we're ready to settle in for the long run with this thing. My wife loves driving it and has now instructed me to lift it and put 35's on it.

I think it will go the distance. In fact, the fit/finish and quality of her Jeep is as good as any vehicle we've ever owned. I've not found even the tiniest flaw. That's saying something considering it has a fiberglass removable top. It has to be hard to get those things just right. Ford has discovered that the hard way with the Bronco.

I do know that the manual doesn't have it. I've got 4 trouble free years with my 2018/manual 3.6. Looking forward to many more.