"Give back car" is being researched a lot!

[eljefino]

How do you know BoA is false reporting?

They all do it. A little anecdote:

I knew a guy, he had fifty bucks in a checking account. He moved. Stopped getting statements at the new address. Just a flaky guy.

Bank charged him $4 a month because he was under the minimum. He eventually went into the negative, and started getting $25 overdraft fees every couple of days.

Eventually he was in the hole for like $4000 and the bank took him to collections. He told them to flake off, he wasn't paying it.

The bank, and it doesn't matter which one, considers that $4000 debt an "asset", and a "good" one at that. But then there'll be a crash and that bank will go crying to Congress about how they need a bailout for what they suddenly discovered is "very bad debt."

Did the guy do wrong by lapsing his communication with the bank? Absolutely. Did the bank "earn" that $4k? Legally, yes. Morally and ethically, very doubtful.

 

[PF52]

It doesn't mean they are doing it currently.

In other news, I stopped beating my wife.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Have many of you studied how the typical person buys a car?

They go into a dealership of some sort, without any forethought on how they are going to pay for a new(er) car, how best to finance it, how much they can really afford per month or any other important knowledge.

They think the people at the dealership are best suited to manage their finances.

Can you cite your study? Thanks!

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

How do you know BoA is false reporting?

I'm not sure we all have a common agreement of what "cooking the books" means.
Rather than the term false reporting, I believe a lot of banks, to include BoA, are not reporting low interest long term bonds on the books at their current value (which they should), but at face value. These bonds are paying sub 2% interest at face value, which is costing the banks a lot of money with current interest rates.
I think a lot of bank execs are hoping interest rates drop soon. If they don't, when the tide goes out, we are going to see who has been swimming naked.
If rates stay high, a lot of financial institutions are going to go Tango Uniform. I'm exposed to bank stocks only through index funds and Berkshire. I hope beyond hope Buffett is smart enough to unload BoA stock before it becomes toxic.

 

[dogememe]

I got swindled into that when I was young. That's the one big thing in life I could change knowing what I do now. I'd be just as far into my career without a college degree.

We're not going to have children , but if we did, I wouldn't let them waste their time and money in college.

That's funny, I am the opposite. I wish I had done some college after high school. Mainly because of an ex who did college and found it interesting, rewarding, and he learned a lot about the world. Also got a nice paying job right out of college through networking. Networking is worth a lot. Had I gone the college route it would have opened more doors for me and I would have ended up directly in the career I wanted instead of now doing online courses and self-teaching myself while working full time. But, on the other hand, I won't have any student loans and the only debt I have now is my car, and I learned a lot about the world in my own way by dealing with people all day at work...

 

[97K15004WD]

They all do it. A little anecdote:

I knew a guy, he had fifty bucks in a checking account. He moved. Stopped getting statements at the new address. Just a flaky guy.

Bank charged him $4 a month because he was under the minimum. He eventually went into the negative, and started getting $25 overdraft fees every couple of days.

Eventually he was in the hole for like $4000 and the bank took him to collections. He told them to flake off, he wasn't paying it.

The bank, and it doesn't matter which one, considers that $4000 debt an "asset", and a "good" one at that. But then there'll be a crash and that bank will go crying to Congress about how they need a bailout for what they suddenly discovered is "very bad debt."

Did the guy do wrong by lapsing his communication with the bank? Absolutely. Did the bank "earn" that $4k? Legally, yes. Morally and ethically, very doubtful.

This happened after my mother passed away. She had an account with Wachovia that was supposed to be closed per communications with the local branch she dealt with.

They didn't follow through and apparently, for whatever reason, the account remained open - even after the money had been withdrawn and the account "closed".

One year later as the estate was closing, the attorney I hired to handle the estate received a letter from Probate Court that Wachovia had filed against the estate for around a thousand dollars or so ((supposed debt from "overdraft" due to minimum account amount not kept), attempted collections, attorney fees, etc.))

I had to drive from a few states away, show the attorney all the notes (which he copied), sign papers (affidavit) - and then he replied back to probate court with all the docs and such.

In the meantime, the debt went up even more. In the end, the Judge in Probate Court disallowed the charges from Wachovia and the estate did not have to pay all the ridiculous charges (at this point around $1,500 or so, IIRC).

Even though my mom's estate "won", it still cost around $1,000 to win against the bogus charges (not including my time and travel expenses). It would have been cheaper just to pay them to go away.

ANYWAY, Back to car loans and people "turning in cars"....

And don't even get me started about the local government that did the same thing with an "ambulance ride", that never happened either. We just paid it to get it gone.

 

[zzyzzx]

How do you know BoA is false reporting?

We don't. What is suspected is that some banks are simply storing most of their repos instead of auctioning them off right away, so as to not flood the market, or maybe just waiting until after earnings. Personally, I'm more inclined to believe that if vehicles are being stored for some time before being auctioned it might be more of a staffing / bureaucracy issue.

 

[Dave Hess]

Lots of cash poor Americans can’t pay their bills.

 

[ATex7239]

In other news, I stopped beating my wife.

She finally win a couple rounds?

 

[fdcg27]

People should obviously be smart enough to buy what they can easily afford and not stretch on something as mundane as a vehicle.
After all, any vehicle is primarily transportation and the value derived from additional cost is usually limited and wears of quickly with the months and years of use while for most the payments continue long after the thrill has passed.
People should also consider running costs. If the cost of fueling a vehicle precludes a family taking advantage of a weekend trip then that vehicle is doing them no favors.
Finally, nobody should ever set foot in a dealership without knowing what they want to buy and what it should cost. To do otherwise makes him dog meat for the salesman, his manager and the F&I guy.
It may be that us old guys know a thing or two and maybe younger guys with families could learn a little from us.
Look at what we drive and consider the vacations that we take, partly because we aren't car poor.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

More people need the Nissan Versa in their life ...

Or a Mitsubishi Mirage

 

[Number_35]

That's funny, I am the opposite. I wish I had done some college after high school. Mainly because of an ex who did college and found it interesting, rewarding, and he learned a lot about the world. Also got a nice paying job right out of college through networking. Networking is worth a lot. Had I gone the college route it would have opened more doors for me and I would have ended up directly in the career I wanted instead of now doing online courses and self-teaching myself while working full time. But, on the other hand, I won't have any student loans and the only debt I have now is my car, and I learned a lot about the world in my own way by dealing with people all day at work...

I did a B.A. starting right out of high school, mostly because I had a fuzzy notion that I should get an education, but had no idea what I wanted to do.

Took a year out to work after 2nd year because the small city where I lived did not offer courses beyond that.

Moved out here on a whim to finish up at a degree-granting university.

After graduation at 22 I did a series of low-paying jobs for a year, unrelated to my education.

Returned to school to do a 2-year electronics course.
a
Graduated at 25, and had some pretty jobs after that.

Coworkers who went to technical college right out of high school had much more seniority than I had, and rose higher in our company. They were making good money at 20. Me, not until 25.

Moral of the story: Education will generally help, but it has to be the sort that will help you get a good job.

 

[GR_CoB]

Toyota just raised production pay to a base of 35$ an hour!

I found this:
"The average Toyota Motor Manufacturing hourly pay ranges from approximately $17 per hour for a Production Worker to $30 per hour for a Production Team Leader."
But it could just be outdated info. Mind sharing where you found your info? Not doubting it, just genuinely interested. But wasn't able to find it with a quick Google search.

EDIT: Found the following info.
- The Japanese automaker (Toyota) will reportedly increase wages for hourly manufacturing workers at the top rate by about 9.2% Jan. 1.
- The pay of production Toyota workers in Kentucky at top scale will rise by $2.94 to $34.80 an hour.
- The top pay of UAW workers at Ford will initially rise to $35.58 and hour from $32.05.
- Under the new tentative agreements with General Motors (GM.N), Ford Motor (F.N) and Stellantis (STLAM.MI), UAW workers will receive a wage hike of 11% upon ratification and 25% in wage hikes through April 2028. UAW workers will also be given cost-of-living adjustments. The amount of time needed for workers to hit top pay will decrease to three years from eight years.

 

[wag123]

I found this:
"The average Toyota Motor Manufacturing hourly pay ranges from approximately $17 per hour for a Production Worker to $30 per hour for a Production Team Leader."
But it could just be outdated info. Mind sharing where you found your info? Not doubting it, just genuinely interested. But wasn't able to find it with a quick Google search.

Here ya go. This was the very first article that showed-up in my Google search.
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...ory-workers-after-uaw-labor-deals-2023-11-01/
After the union dues are subtracted from the UAW's newly negotiated pay, Toyota's pay is actually higher.

 

[GR_CoB]

Here ya go. This was the very first article that showed-up in my Google search.
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...ory-workers-after-uaw-labor-deals-2023-11-01/

Thanks! Saw your post right after I posted an update to mine. For some reason on my browser it took quite a bit of scrolling before I got to the right info.

 

[fisher83]

Have many of you studied how the typical person buys a car?

They go into a dealership of some sort, without any forethought on how they are going to pay for a new(er) car, how best to finance it, how much they can really afford per month or any other important knowledge.

They think the people at the dealership are best suited to manage their finances.

I sold cars briefly after high school. This is spot on.

 

[wag123]

Back to the topic. It has always amazed me that there are people out there who actually believe they can simply "give back" a vehicle that they don't want and that there won't be any negative consequences for doing so. These same stupid people don't understand why their credit score is only 390.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Can you cite your study? Thanks!

Study? That would be 30 years of listening to people, reading stuff on forums, etc., about how the general public buys cars.

Here - someone agrees with me

Hope this helps.

 

[PandaBear]

People need to learn basic arithmetic. No one twisted their arm to sign that contract.

I think you were the one who told me a while ago to "come on, live a little"....

Jokes aside. Most people would have to pay more to get a car due to shortage and inflation, but then the low interest rate that let them do it will soon stop due to inflation problem and obviously some people will not be able to afford it, and let things repo.

On a micro scale it is the individual buyers' problem. However on a macro economic scale it is expected and factored in. You can't have stimulus if nobody is overpaying when extra QE and reduced interest rates happen. You can also not have inflation reduced via higher interest rates when nobody is unemployed (need to increase unemployment if you want to combat inflation).

So, people being irresponsible following human nature is factored in, and expected, on a macro economic scale in every society every culture every nation every policy.

 

[eljefino]

People should obviously be smart enough to buy what they can easily afford and not stretch on something as mundane as a vehicle.

People are as dumb as a bowl full of cereal. Whatever their current car is, "doesn't work for them", and they lust after something new. Once they get that in their mind, a $20k Corolla doesn't exist on the lot that day so they compromise and get get a $40k Stellantis POS.

Keep your car maintained, wash the salt off it, don't cold start it to run to the store for a pack of cigarettes. It adds up to years more service of driving something unfashionable.