Gf`s Olds low on water/LOTS of sludge in radiator.

[aquariuscsm]

I was doing the routine fluids check on my gf`s car and noticed the radiator was half empty,oil was about a half quart low too. I took off the radiator cap and it looked like it was full of golden-brown muddy sludge. Overflow bottle was empty too. Her car also runs really hot. I`ve changed the thermostat twice. It reaches a very high temp (around 220F on the guage) and you can smell an "antifreeze" smell,then it cools back down to a normal temp. It does this type of behavior on a regular basis........temp goes high,then lowers and settles at a normal operating temp. What is more than likely the issue? Her car:

1998 Olds 88 LS with 160,000 miles,engine is a 3800 V6,normally asperated. Here`s a couple of pics I took:

 

[Kuato]

You say it runs hot, plus the radiator has deposits in it. That indicates to me that the radiator isn't doing the job it was designed to do. After 12 years and 160K of low maintenance, IMO it's time for a new radiator, along with a good flush of the system.

 

[tig1]

Intake manifold gaskets are shot I would say. The GM V6 engines have a lot of problems with these. I know several people that this has happened to.

 

[mechtech2]

You may not need a radiator, but a good flushing should be done.
Using a name brand product from Prestone or such is best.
Follow the directions. Well, of course you would follow directions.
Except kinda sorta following them won't work well.

 

[Falcon_LS]

This will sound rather unconventional, but personally, I would flush out all the old coolant and refill with 100% distilled water and a small amount of washing detergent. Drive 1,000 miles and flush again, then add something like Ford's Radiator Flush Additive. Do a pressure test, inspect all hoses, replace the thermostat and radiator cap, then fill with a 50/50 ratio of G-05. Then I'd do something similar to Onion's coolant filter to trap anything else in the system.

 

[motorguy222]

The rad. being low on antifreeze seems to be the main problem at the moment.It does have antifreeze in it doesnt it? If it doesnt,it has to have it to keep the system from corroding and it also raises the boiling point to help keep the car from over heating.Being in a warm weather area is not a reason to not use anifreeze,some may tell you (not here on the board) that it isnt needed but that is wrong.

You may be able to just do a system flush.The rad. may just need a good cleaning.You can check to see if it is ok structurally by looking for any leaks,you can also lightly run a fingernail over the rads. fins and if they crush or feel brittle,the rad.is bad and wont cool right.

It is hard to tell much about the actual inside of the rad. in the pic. What looks like the inside seems to actually be the trans. cooler.

A good flush may be all that is needed but do the fin test and make sure that it will hold up to that,if it doesnt,no matter what you do it wont cool like it should and may cause the car to over heat.

Also,I would stay away from the washing detergent idea,it may or may not hurt anything but is it worth the risk?

 

[J_Sap]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Intake manifold gaskets are shot I would say. The GM V6 engines have a lot of problems with these. I know several people that this has happened to.


First thing I thought as well. These engines are known to have this problem. Change the gaskets before it's too late or you might be changing engines.

 

[motorguy222]

I think that the GM 3.1 is the V-6 that has the most trouble with the intake gaskets but you can look around the intake and see if there are any leaks.

 

[mechanicx]

Car is very old and high milage and apparently uses coolant so it may have leaky intake manifold gaskets and even head gaskets. Let's put that aside. I would get a couple bottles of stronger radiator cleaner and probably a T-flush and get the system flushed out. Replace the radiator pressure cap with a new Stant 10230/11230 spring center pressure cap, refill and bleed with 50/50 original Green or G-05. This should fix the problem. The problem may all stem from a bad pressure cap losing coolant and the deposits.

 

[tomcat27]

Obviously it is loosing coolant. check the water pump, hose connections, and yes - the GM V6's from that era are known for leaking IMG's. Actually, any GM engine that runs the coolant thru the intake manifold - the DexCool (as it becomes acidic) eats away at the elastomers that were used in the gaskets. it's a well-known and well-documented problem. GM tried to distract people gy saying it was an issue with the radiator cap.

the actually repair is within the capabilities of anyone who thinks that they can do it. did one last year for a friend. we probably spent most of the day on it - altho anyone skilled who has done one before can probably do the repair in 2-3 hours. the shop charge seems to run 600-1200. parts are aroung $100 as you should replace both sets - the upper and lower set of IMGs. new coolant, and the goofy plastic bypass that they use on the 3.8. sometimes the (plastic) intake manifold itself warps from the heat.

 

[Steve S]

Time for a new G.F with a nicer car!! Just my opinion from experience.

 

[The_Eric]

I agree with most of what's been said here. Pretty sound advice...

I'll add that the fluctuating temperature is likely a function of the low coolant and also to go straight to the dealer for the thermostat. I really don't know what it is about them, but they seem to be more consistent and get up to temp a touch quicker.

 

[motorguy222]

I have a 93 GM that has a V-6 and it does not have a plastic intake so all GM V-6 engines are not prone to intake leaks.My brother has a Pontiac with the 3.8 and he has not had any problems either.It is not all GM V-6 engines.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Important note:

The recommendation for "washing detergent" is common and I've read a lot of success stories using it as a great "flush" to get a lot of crud out of the system.

It's very, very important to note that this is "dishwasher detergent" as in Cascade or Eletrosol powder meant to go in a dishwasher.

*NOT* Dawn dishsoap, NOT Tide laundry detergent, NOT "washing soda".

If I had something with as many issues as this vehicle, I wouldn't think twice about trying a dishwasher detergent flush. Spend some time with google to find opinions on ratios. I would premix the powder with some water to make a slurry and not just dump powder in the rad followed by cold water and hope for the best.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: motorguy222
I have a 93 GM that has a V-6 and it does not have a plastic intake so all GM V-6 engines are not prone to intake leaks.My brother has a Pontiac with the 3.8 and he has not had any problems either.It is not all GM V-6 engines.


Even those engines with the aluminum upper are not exempt. They still have plastic lower gaskets which can leak. It's less common for an older (green anti-freeze) system to leak than say, a Dex Cool system, they still can and do.

 

[cchase]

That sludge looks like someone mixed green with Dexcool more than a gasket problem. Not saying there couldn't be that as well, but that looks more like the brown sludge formed by mixing green with pink.

 

[PhillyJoe]

Could be the original coolant. Could have a small leak. If she's a keeper, flush the system well and refill with anything but dexcool. Might want to add a small amount of bar's leak. Change the upper and lower radiator hoses while you're at it as they could also be 12 years old. Also check around the water pump for coolant loss. If the leak persists, you have a gasket problem.

 

[MarkM66]

Put a pressure checker on it first.

There's a problem somewhere. Intake or head gasket I'd guess.

 

[Drew99GT]

Lower intake gaskets and the EGR stovepipe in the upper manifold are the leak points in these engines. If the radiator level has been low and the Dexcool exposed to air, it sludges.

If this was my car and I wanted it fixed correctly, then the radiator needs to be replaced, the upper manifold replaced and the lower gaskets replaced. That's well over $1,000 worth of work. If that's too much of an expense, then I'd do this: drain the radiator (the drain is on the driver side at the bottom), take the thermostat housing off (really easy to do), take the stat out, and reinstall the housing. Fill the radiator with a chemical flushing agent and water, turn the heat on full, and run the engine for a while. Maybe do that twice. Drain the system, fill it with water again, and run the engine for a few minutes. Do that twice so all of the chemical flush is out. Drain the radiator and fill it with distilled water. Run the engine for a minute, drain it again, and refill with distilled water. Run it again for a minute, and drain the rad. That way the system has distilled water in it. Then, take the thermostat housing off and put a new thermostat in. Then, with the radiator empty, add a can of bars head gasket fix. The stuff works; it's in my dad's Olds 88 as I type. http://www.barsproducts.com/1111.htm

Then, add Peak Global lifetime 100% concentrated antifreeze to the system at half the system capacity (because the engine has all distilled water in it). Then, top off the rest of the system with distilled water.

I've saved numerous leaky GMs this way, and it's really quite easy to do on an Olds 88.

Oh, and put a new radiator cap on it as well. Also, take the overflow tank off and flush that out and add 50/50 distilled water and Peak global to it. You'll likely have to change the hose as it'll be brittle. Also, while you're at it, change the upper radiator hose, as it'll be the first to fail since it's the outlet from the engine and it sits directly above the exhaust crossover pipe (it gets really hot). I found the one in my dad's 1999 Olds 88 the size of a small water balloon one day and on the verge of failing).

 

[onion]

Don't worry about that sludge in the cooling system. Dexcool doesn't cause that... so you're probably just imagining it.