German Castrol Still Available - USA ?

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
It appears the synthetic oils that Castrol is now supplying the USA are a bit underwhelming - there is only so much you can do with additives if the Castrol base oils are lacking .

Underwhelming in what way? Are they not meeting the mfg specifications? Are engines disintegrating all of a sudden?

 

[OilUzer]

Isn't Ravenol one of the best or the best German oil avilable?
Ask @OVERKILL

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by Gokhan
The country of origin does not matter. It wasn't called "German" because it was made in Germany. It was called German because it was PAO-based, ...
Wrong. It had everything to do with country of origin.
The original "German" Castrol Syntec 0w-30 was made in Germany and imported to the US.
There were versions of the Castrol Syntec 0w-30 made in the US and Germany at the same time.
The one made in the US was not as good as the one made in Germany (German made was full PAO, US was not).
Original German had a green tint to it as well, but went to an amber color in later production.

It does not matter. Do you think US, Germany, and Belgium are the only countries Castrol blends their oils in? Castrol has a blending facility virtually in every country. For example the new Castrol 0W-30 C3/dexos2 is blended in several countries but it's PAO-based regardless of the country of the origin.

As I explained Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4 has been reformulated throughout the world, regardless of the country of the origin, and it's no longer PAO-based. Perhaps the two simultaneously different versions you're talking about were at the time of the reformulation taking place.

Moreover, there are also the Castrol 0W-30 A5/B5 (made in USA) vs. Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4. Of course, these two are entirely different oils, the former being a lower-HTHS oil and not requiring a higher-quality base oil.

Does that mean that a given Castrol oil can't have different formulations depending on the country of the origin? Yes, it certainly can. However, you need to realize that the country of the origin ultimately has nothing to do with whether it's PAO-based or not. In Germany they blend and sell oils that are not PAO-based as wells as PAO-based oils. However, from what I've seen in MSDSs, the formulation tends not to vary with the country of the origin if at all. This is for obvious economic reasons because changing the formulation means retesting and recertifying the oil, which costs millions of dollars.

No, country of origin does not matter.
But before you ventured into "know it all category" "German Castrol" was called "German" bcs. it was only Castrol imported from Germany that was readily available for owners of European vehicles. Also, it had legendary reputation bcs. of additive developed by Kyocera (green color) that provided extremely smooth operation. As already mentioned, Made in USA version was also available but nowhere near as smooth and good as German version. Generally Castrol makes in the US Group III products that are not on par with European versions.
Current 0W30 is Made in Belgium, and it is still best and smoothest Edge available (I use it) and the reason why it lost on popularity is that 0W40 goes for $26 for 5qt in Wal Mart and 0W30 goes for $60 for 6qt box on Amazon.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by edyvw
No, country of origin does not matter.
But before you ventured into "know it all category" "German Castrol" was called "German" bcs. it was only Castrol imported from Germany that was readily available for owners of European vehicles. Also, it had legendary reputation bcs. of additive developed by Kyocera (green color) that provided extremely smooth operation. As already mentioned, Made in USA version was also available but nowhere near as smooth and good as German version. Generally Castrol makes in the US Group III products that are not on par with European versions.
Current 0W30 is Made in Belgium, and it is still best and smoothest Edge available (I use it) and the reason why it lost on popularity is that 0W40 goes for $26 for 5qt in Wal Mart and 0W30 goes for $60 for 6qt box on Amazon.

Current Castrol A3/B4 0W-30 and 0W-40 have very similar PAO content -- both 25 - 50% according to the MSDSs, so perhaps PAO being roughly half the base oil.

Current 0W-30 is blended in several locations, including Italy, according to the MSDSs, where there is a manufacturing-country code somewhere.

I thought both products were fully PAO-based until a few years ago; so, there wasn't much change from the green formulation of fifteen years ago. (Happy St. Patrick's Day, everyone.

)

Full-SAPS A3/B4 formulations are becoming less and less popular and being replaced by mid-SAPS (C3 (3.5 - 3.6 cP) and C5 (2.6 - 2.7 cP)) formulations. This is what Trav had said:

Originally Posted by Trav
Yes Edge 0w30 is going away, its an old obsolete formula no longer used in Europe (they have a new 0w30), it is so close to the 0w40 its not worth keeping both.
They are keeping the 0w40. If you were using the 0w30 just use the 0w40, your engine wont know the difference.

https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-03101-0W-40-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B00JGQLZSU

I don't think the OP asked about the history of Castrol A3/B4 0W-30. My post here was to explain what is currently available. Then another person and you talked about the history, which is fine.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by blupupher

Again, country of origin did matter, regardless of what you think.
I (and the OP) am talking about the "German Castrol" that is specifically being referred to in this forum for the ~2003-2006 time frame. It was was called German Castrol because it was MADE IN GERMANY.
It was Castrol Syntec 0w-30, was green, and was made in Germany, and was a specific oil formulation that was only made in Germany.
The Castrol Syntec 0w-30 made in the US at the same time carried the same spec's, but was not the same oil, and was not sought after.
I don't give a rats rear about any of the technical qualifiers of what you are referring to, that is not what is being referenced when talking about the specific green German Castrol from that time frame on this forum.

When talking about current oils, you are correct.
Country of origin now is not as big of a deal; but at that time for that specific oil, it was.

You were not around at that time, so understandable you don't know about it.


This post sums it up best.

Here is the GC FAQ .

I believe some of the original discussions about Dyson's deep dive (partially(?) funded by bitog donations) into the original Green GC disappeared when we switched servers. But Tom NJ's GC on GC's post is here (Gold version) . AndyH has some very good quotes from the Dyson deep dive in that thread.

IMO, GC 0W-30 lost popularity when Edge 0W-40 became more readily available in N. America with U.S. pricing at ~$30. I switched to 0W-40 because I got tired of driving around to every Autozone looking for GC.

 

[OilUzer]

There is also this Castrol which is API SL:

Castrol 06244 EDGE A3/B4 0W-30 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 1 Quart, 6 Pack
Currently $58.52 on Amazon

What's the history of this oil? Leftover GC?

I was considering it once. Also because I have read that api sl is not as harsh on seals. So if you car doesn't require api sn for example or is not DI ... Then I found out Ravenol is also very good. I haven't bought either ... Just some old research.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
There is also this Castrol which is API SL:

Castrol 06244 EDGE A3/B4 0W-30 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 1 Quart, 6 Pack
Currently $58.52 on Amazon

What's the history of this oil? Leftover GC?

I was considering it once. Also because I have read that api sl is not as harsh on seals. So if you car doesn't require api sn for example or is not DI ... Then I found out Ravenol is also very good. I haven't bought either ... Just some old research.

This is the German Castrol reformulated, PAO having been reduced to about half.

You can also get the Castrol A3/B4 0W-40, which is practically the same oil as this one but cheaper and easier to find.

API SN oils, API CK-4 oils, and all ACEA oils must pass a set of seal-compatibility tests. You obviously can't have an oil that destroys the seals.

 

[harrydog]

Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by Gokhan
The country of origin does not matter. It wasn't called "German" because it was made in Germany. It was called German because it was PAO-based, ...

Wrong. It had everything to do with country of origin.
The original "German" Castrol Syntec 0w-30 was made in Germany and imported to the US.
There were versions of the Castrol Syntec 0w-30 made in the US and Germany at the same time.
The one made in the US was not as good as the one made in Germany (German made was full PAO, US was not).
Original German had a green tint to it as well, but went to an amber color in later production.

This is correct. It WAS called German Castrol because it was made in Germany. That shouldn't even be debated. If you were here during that time you would know.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Actually the PAO-based German Castrol A3/B4 0W-30 and 0W-40 were available until a few years ago, perhaps as late as 2017 or 2018.
....


In the US? 0W-30? Nope, it was Belgian by then. The Castrol PDS is quite identical to the older, second generation (gold) German one...

*Upon further review, Belgian Castrol 0W-30 was around circa 2013-2014...

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Originally Posted by blupupher
...
I (and the OP) am talking about the "German Castrol" that is specifically being referred to in this forum for the ~2003-2006 time frame. It was was called German Castrol because it was MADE IN GERMANY.
It was Castrol Syntec 0w-30, was green, and was made in Germany, and was a specific oil formulation that was only made in Germany.
The Castrol Syntec 0w-30 made in the US at the same time carried the same spec's, but was not the same oil, and was not sought after.
I don't give a rats rear about any of the technical qualifiers of what you are referring to, that is not what is being referenced when talking about the specific green German Castrol from that time frame on this forum.
....


Just to clarify, the "American Castrol" disappeared a long while ago and wasn't available for long once the German Castrol 0W-30 came out. And the GC was green for a bit but it was the same amber/gold most oils were for longer than it was green during its run here. I used my last stash of it in 2014...

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by OilUzer
There is also this Castrol which is API SL:

Castrol 06244 EDGE A3/B4 0W-30 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 1 Quart, 6 Pack
Currently $58.52 on Amazon

What's the history of this oil? Leftover GC?

I was considering it once. Also because I have read that api sl is not as harsh on seals. So if you car doesn't require api sn for example or is not DI ... Then I found out Ravenol is also very good. I haven't bought either ... Just some old research.

This is the German Castrol reformulated, PAO having been reduced to about half.

You can also get the Castrol A3/B4 0W-40, which is practically the same oil as this one but cheaper and easier to find.

API SN oils, API CK-4 oils, and all ACEA oils must pass a set of seal-compatibility tests. You obviously can't have an oil that destroys the seals.


Good to know. Thanks for the info.

I may try the 0W40 since it's not pricey and the car I am considering it for is not a turbo or DI. Plus I'm not as concerned about high amounts of vii (I assume) as I used to be.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by harrydog
This is correct. It WAS called German Castrol because it was made in Germany. That shouldn't even be debated. If you were here during that time you would know.

What I meant was that nobody would bother to call it anything if it wasn't vollsynthese (fully PAO-based). It was called German Castrol because it was (1) made in Germany and (2) vollsynthese (fully PAO-based). Likewise people don't call the current formulation German Castrol because it's not vollsynthese (fully PAO-based). Such oils have been called teilsynthese (synthetic blend) in Germany because they contain both PAO and Group III.

ExxonMobil's explanation on Germany's oil language:

Mobil 1 PAO - Group III+ (Visom) transition

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Jackson_Slugger
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Actually the PAO-based German Castrol A3/B4 0W-30 and 0W-40 were available until a few years ago, perhaps as late as 2017 or 2018.
....
In the US? 0W-30? Nope, it was Belgian by then. The Castrol PDS is quite identical to the older, second generation (gold) German one...

*Upon further review, Belgian Castrol 0W-30 was around circa 2013-2014...

Thank you for the info. I don't make the distinction between the Belgian Castrol and German Castrol if the formulation is the same for both and they are both fully PAO-based (vollsynthese).

For example the successor of the German Castrol A3/B4 0W-30 vollsynthese -- Castrol C3/dexos2 0W-30 vollsynthese -- is made in several EU countries, including Belgium, Germany, and Italy -- well, perhaps not Italy at the moment with the outbreak. The bottles simply say "Made in EU" regardless of the specific country, but there are MSDS's with different manufacturing-country codes.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
No, country of origin does not matter.
But before you ventured into "know it all category" "German Castrol" was called "German" bcs. it was only Castrol imported from Germany that was readily available for owners of European vehicles. Also, it had legendary reputation bcs. of additive developed by Kyocera (green color) that provided extremely smooth operation. As already mentioned, Made in USA version was also available but nowhere near as smooth and good as German version. Generally Castrol makes in the US Group III products that are not on par with European versions.
Current 0W30 is Made in Belgium, and it is still best and smoothest Edge available (I use it) and the reason why it lost on popularity is that 0W40 goes for $26 for 5qt in Wal Mart and 0W30 goes for $60 for 6qt box on Amazon.

Current Castrol A3/B4 0W-30 and 0W-40 have very similar PAO content -- both 25 - 50% according to the MSDSs, so perhaps PAO being roughly half the base oil.

Current 0W-30 is blended in several locations, including Italy, according to the MSDSs, where there is a manufacturing-country code somewhere.

I thought both products were fully PAO-based until a few years ago; so, there wasn't much change from the green formulation of fifteen years ago. (Happy St. Patrick's Day, everyone.

)

Full-SAPS A3/B4 formulations are becoming less and less popular and being replaced by mid-SAPS (C3 (3.5 - 3.6 cP) and C5 (2.6 - 2.7 cP)) formulations. This is what Trav had said:

Originally Posted by Trav
Yes Edge 0w30 is going away, its an old obsolete formula no longer used in Europe (they have a new 0w30), it is so close to the 0w40 its not worth keeping both.
They are keeping the 0w40. If you were using the 0w30 just use the 0w40, your engine wont know the difference.

https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-03101-0W-40-Synthetic-Motor/dp/B00JGQLZSU

I don't think the OP asked about the history of Castrol A3/B4 0W-30. My post here was to explain what is currently available. Then another person and you talked about the history, which is fine.

We know that, we are using this product forever.
1. Current 0W30 is Made in Belgium and was never made in Italy. Castrol does make a lot of stuff in Italy and Austria especially.
2. Current 0W30 is not as popular bcs. of price, not A3 formulation. It is expensive and 0W40 is still really good oil, so people buy that. Castrol 0W30 A3 is still pushed in the US by Castrol. So far C3 is not being offered, who knows when or if they will offer it.
3. PAO content was changed in those oils last year. Until 2019 it was above 50%. However, both 0W30 and 0W40 are still exceptional oils and pretty much better than anything else out there when it comes to Euro cars.

 

[Gokhan]

OK, let's put a bottom line on what is currently offered by Castrol.

I had posted the following a year ago. I am repeating it here.

MSDS 463737-DE01: German Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463737-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463737-IT01: Italian Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463998-DE01: German Castrol 0W-40 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 467337-US65: American Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467465-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467465-DE01: German Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467680-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4, half-PAO-based

Therefore, there are no PAO-based Castrol A3/B4 oils anymore.

However, there is an Belgian/German/Italian Castrol 0W-30 C3 and a German Castrol 0W-40 C3, both of which are PAO-based.

As you can see, the same oil is blended in several locations. The country code in the MSDS is not for where the oil is sold but where it is blended.

The information above is a-year-old. There may be newer oils or some of these oils may have been discontinued. You can search the Castrol MSDS & PDS repository to see if newer oils are offered.

 

[Gokhan]

I've corrected the MSDS link for the Italian Castrol. I'm probably missing some country-of-origin versions. Search the Castrol MSDS & PDS repository for all locations by plugging in the numerical product code without the country-of-origin suffix to see if they make a given oil in other countries. You need to open and look into the MSDS to see the country-of-origin suffix.

MSDS 463737-DE01: German Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463737-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463737-IT01: Italian Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463998-DE01: German Castrol 0W-40 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 467337-US65: American Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467465-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467465-DE01: German Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467680-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4, half-PAO-based

 

[OilUzer]

Gokhan,
Curious why 0W40 A3/B4 is much cheaper (half price?) than the 0W30 A3/B4 API SL?
Thanks

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by harrydog
This is correct. It WAS called German Castrol because it was made in Germany. That shouldn't even be debated. If you were here during that time you would know.

What I meant was that nobody would bother to call it anything if it wasn't vollsynthese (fully PAO-based). It was called German Castrol because it was (1) made in Germany and (2) vollsynthese (fully PAO-based). Likewise people don't call the current formulation German Castrol because it's not vollsynthese (fully PAO-based). Such oils have been called teilsynthese (synthetic blend) in Germany because they contain both PAO and Group III.

ExxonMobil's explanation on Germany's oil language:

Mobil 1 PAO - Group III+ (Visom) transition


I remember that very well. Mobil switching from group 4 to group 3 base stocks and trying to hide it,but the white paper was leaked. Pot meet kettle. That caused quite the debate here back then.

Is the sticky thread titled "German Castrol" still here? I think it was in the European oil section.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Gokhan,
Curious why 0W40 A3/B4 is much cheaper (half price?) than the 0W30 A3/B4 API SL?
Thanks

Good catch, OilUzer!

The cheap Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, SN sold at Amazon is yet another version -- it is the Malaysian Castrol.

Malaysian Castrol does not contain any PAO at all. It is entirely Group III. That's why it's so cheap.

I am adding this oil into my list as well.

MSDS 463737-DE01: German Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463737-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463737-IT01: Italian Castrol 0W-30 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 463998-DE01: German Castrol 0W-40 C3, PAO-based
MSDS 467465-MY01: Malaysian Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, SN, Group-III-based
MSDS 467337-US65: American Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467465-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467465-DE01: German Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, half-PAO-based
MSDS 467680-BE02: Belgian Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4, half-PAO-based[/quote]

PS: I'm probably missing a lot of country-of-origin versions. Search the Castrol MSDS & PDS repository for all locations by plugging in the numerical product code without the country-of-origin suffix to see if they make a given oil in other countries. You need to open and look into the MSDS to see the country-of-origin suffix. If the numerical product code is different, the formulation is also different. Same numerical product code means same formulation even if the country of origin is different. To find all numerical product codes (formulations), search for "0W-30," "0W-40," etc. under product name.

 

[drtyler]

The Castrol 0W-40 that I have purchased from Amazon has not been made in Malaysia. It was made in Belgium. It is the same as available at Walmart for the about the same price.

Did you order some from Amazon recently to know this firsthand?



Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by OilUzer
Gokhan,
Curious why 0W40 A3/B4 is much cheaper (half price?) than the 0W30 A3/B4 API SL?
Thanks

Good catch, OilUzer!

The cheap Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4, SN sold at Amazon is yet another version -- it is the Malaysian Castrol.

Malaysian Castrol does not contain any PAO at all. It is entirely Group III. That's why it's so cheap.