German Castrol in V-6 Camry -- I'm Concerned.

[ekpolk]

A couple days ago, I changed oil, and put in 5qts of German Castrol (0w-30, each bottle carefully confirmed to be the German stuff, not the similar looking American stock), with standard sized Mobil-1 filter (the type I normally use). Previous oil was Amsoil 5w-30 (ASL). This oil had been in for 5k, with an Ams filter for the first half, and an M-1 for the second, and the filter change resulting in no detectable operational difference. I'm doing these relatively short OCIs to find the oil I think feels best in my car.

Engine starts fine and quietly, as it always has. Cold and low RPM (below 3000) are just fine, very smooth and quiet. On the other hand, anything above 4000 RPM results in a distinctly louder and raspier quality sound. Also, the engine also clearly pings more in light urban traffic when you step into it a little, using a dose of torque to squirt through traffic. Fuel mileage also appears to be down, although I won't know for sure until tonight when I do a 200 mile highway run back to New Orleans, but this weekend, the guage has seemed to drop toward "E" more quickly than normal.

My car is a year old '03 V-6 Camry with 35k miles on it (yes, 35,000). Maybe this car just "likes" the Amsoil better (smooth all the way to the red line). I've quelled the panic dump reaction for now so I can see if anything changes over the coming days. I'm tempted, however, to let this GC just be an expensive engine rinse (and lesson). Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Terry]

Ed, GC has a very positive affectation on Cf and I suspect the engine Control Unit is adjusting to that thus the light clatter and MPG drop.

The frictional drop will degrade with use and this oil reminds me of Amsoil series 2000 0w-30 when it first came out around 95/96 and the improved MPG that dropped off with use.

Give it some time. The noticably louder sound is the vis difference and possibly cooler head temps.

Ride it out. Do make sure that the air filter is clean . At 35,000 if it hasn't been changed that will affect the MPG more than anyhting else.

Terry

 

[ekpolk]

Terry: Thanks for the input. I'm doing my best to remind myself that there's a wide range of acceptable characteristics in oil, and that this good, SL-rated PAO oil is unlikely to blow my engine up. . . I will keep it for now.

The air filter is clean. I hate to actually admit this, but I didn't replace it until 30k, a couple months ago. The original was horribly filthy! I'll never make that mistake again. Even the fancy lofted fluff Toyota filter is pretty reasonably priced, so I intend to change them automatically every 10k from now on.

 

[Terry]

Ed have you analyzed the oil in this camry ?

That would be a good way to take much of the conjecture out of the discussion.


Your fuel and treating it would be another area that you would hear and feel, especially at the 35000 mile mark as carbon builds on the head and top of pistons.

I highy recommend FP at 1 oz to 5 gallons in the Toyo 3.0 for long term cleanliness and driveability with regular gas and no retard in timing.

TD

 

[ekpolk]

Ugh, more unwanted news. Just finished my Sunday night Pensacola to New Orleans run, just over two hundred miles. I always do it the same way, same load, same driving style, usually same traffic conditions. Last week, with Amsoil 5w-30 on board, I got 29.5 mpg. This week with the newly installed GC, only 25.8! No, this is by no means statistically significant, but especially coupled with the other indicators I've already observed, it only fuels my concern.

I remain open minded about this product. Maybe my engine just needs to get used to the different oil. On the other hand, mabye GC and the Toyota 1MZ V-6 just aren't meant for each other. Any other 1MZ owners out there who've tried GC?

Shame on me, but no UOAs yet. I've only been here a month, so although I certainly knew about oil testing, it really wasn't on my mental radar. And I've been wondering about what I'm really going to learn about a relatively new engine that's been fed great oils over relatively short OCIs (5k-7.5k). Now I'm getting curious.

 

[Alan]

There is a UOA on a 2004 Sienna using GC on the UOA forum.

 

[unDummy]

Swap the Mobil1 filter and try again.
Switch gas stations. Maybe you got a bad tank of fuel or have a fuel restriction. Hope you changed you fuel filter by now. And, grab a bottle of FI cleaner if you haven't already.

I doubt that switching from one 30wt to another can make that much of a difference.

 

[vvk]

Some engines just don't like the thicker Euro-oil. Changing from GC 0W-30 to GTX 10W-30 was like breathing life into my Subaru. The engine feels and sounds so much better -- smoother, quieter, faster to spin up and way more power.

 

[tec97]

I know a few people have reported a noticable drop in performance by going to the GC product (I specifically recall someone w/ an SRT-4). I'd dump the GC and go back to what works.

 

[DavoNF]

Amsoil 5W-30 got 29.5mpg
GC 0W-30 got 25.8mpg.

That doesn't make sense. Headwind or something? Different gas?. I cannot see an oil making that much difference in fuel consumption.

There has to be another factor, IMHO.

Dave

 

[Ray H]

2003 Hyundai Sonata V-6, 68 cent/qt. 10W-30 Havoline dinosour juice, $1.97 SuperTech 3593A oil filter, and ARCO's cheapest 87 octane unleaded regular (re-formualted this past January with corn squeezin's per the South Coast Air Quality Management District) RULES.

 

[tec97]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
(re-formualted this past January with corn squeezin's per the South Coast Air Quality Management District) RULES.

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S.C.A.M.D. !!!!!

 

[Cutehumor]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
2003 Hyundai Sonata V-6, 68 cent/qt. 10W-30 Havoline dinosour juice, $1.97 SuperTech 3593A oil filter, and ARCO's cheapest 87 octane unleaded regular (re-formualted this past January with corn squeezin's per the South Coast Air Quality Management District) RULES.

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I guess a UOA would be out of the question

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by haley10:
I would put in a new fuel filter and run some different fuel like Conoco or Citgo.

It may be somewhat coincidental and the oil switch just magnifies it.

I had a similar situation. Some car don't like Formula Shell gas if you've been running that.

I'd eliminate that issue first before I condemed the oil. Sounds like a fuel issue that needs to be resolved 1st.

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This is perplexing. I am not making the mistake of assuming that because the "symptoms" I'm seeing follow the oil change, the change must have caused them.

Gas isn't likely the problem, though, as I follow a pretty rigid pattern there too, just because of my routine. I get Citgo 93 at the base gas station in New Orleans twice a week (top offs on Sunday night and Friday afternoon), and I fill up with 93 at the same BP station near my house in Florida on Sunday before leaving for New Orleans.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DavoNF:
Amsoil 5W-30 got 29.5mpg
GC 0W-30 got 25.8mpg.

That doesn't make sense. Headwind or something? Different gas?. I cannot see an oil making that much difference in fuel consumption.

There has to be another factor, IMHO.

Dave

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I'd certainly agree that charging the difference to the oil alone is hard to swallow, but so far, I'm at a loss as to what else might be the cause. MIght be a one-time filling variance, but I'm usually careful to be consistent, and I've also got the high-rpm unsmoothness to account for as well. Weather seemed unremarkable, thought there could have been a few kts of wind.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts on this. I'll keep working it to see if I can tease out any legitimate conclusions.

 

[buster]

Aren't some oils just better friction modified then others? There was an independant test done by Amsoil and it showed the Mobil 1 0w-40 to produce very good HP respective to other oils being compared. Amsoil did well, of course, too.

Amsoil S2k used to thicken real bad, (seems to be much better now) and that is why I think RL found it to lose its CF over the course of the interval.

 

[ChrisW]

are you still on the original tires at ~30k miles? Some tires reduce mpg as they wear, but i dont know if it's enough to cause a 4mpg difference.

Spark plugs maybe are worn somehow? though i think the newer toyotas use 100k miles platinum plugs.

I too would not point the finger at the oil just yet, though it does seem like it eh?

 

[tenderloin]

With the high price of gas, IMO you got shorted by an unscrupulous gas dealer

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by ChrisW:
are you still on the original tires at ~30k miles? Some tires reduce mpg as they wear, but i dont know if it's enough to cause a 4mpg difference.

Spark plugs maybe are worn somehow? though i think the newer toyotas use 100k miles platinum plugs.

I too would not point the finger at the oil just yet, though it does seem like it eh?

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Yeah, the original Goodyear Integritys are still installed. They are about half gone, at least from looking at the treadwear situation. Not a very inspired tire, but by running it at about 36-38 psi, vs. the Toyota recommended 29, I get a blend of crispness, ride, and somewhat enhanced mileage that I like. BTW, the GY max for the tire is 44. Checked the tires after last night's run just to make sure, and they're all stable.

Hadn't considered the plugs, but given the abrupt onset of the unsmoothness and decreased mpg, coinciding with the OC, I'm still looking at the new oil. I'm definitely going to give it some time. Maybe the ECU does need to readjust itself to certain characteristics of the GC that are different from the previously installed Amsoil. While they are both 30 wt oils, maybe the HT/HS rating is different. Anyone got the value for GC? I've searched but not found. . .

Thanks again for everyone's help with this.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Maybe the ECU does need to readjust itself to certain characteristics of the GC that are different from the previously installed Amsoil. While they are both 30 wt oils, maybe the HT/HS rating is different. Anyone got the value for GC? I've searched but not found. . .

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GC's HTHS value is 3.6

FWIW, the gas mileage on both of my cars has stayed relatively the same or perhaps even slightly higher since switching both of them to GC.

 

[ekpolk]

Another thought on this just hit me. The so-called VVT-i, or variable valve timing that's installed on my engine is ECU controlled and hydraulically actuated with -- you guessed it -- pressurized engine oil. VVT-i had a major impact on this engine's "personality." Not only were hp and tq increased (192 to 220 and 208 to 220 respectively) but most importantly, the torque curve was widened noticeably. The theory I'm considering is that since this engine is very dependent upon oil pressure actuated valve timing for its driveability, maybe that makes it more senstive to changes, even subtle ones, in oil characteristics. Am I making any sense here?