Geely EVs to enter US market

[jghall00]

Supposedly, Geely is going to enter the U.S. market in the near future.

For those that don't know, this is the Chinese parent company of Zeekr, Volvo, Polestar, and Lotus.

Its portfolio includes the golden battery, with sub 10-minute fast charging capability to 80%.

Not sure what the plan here is, since three of its brands already have products in the U.S. I don't think the current administration will allow it. But it may be laying the groundwork for the eventual change in administration.

 

[MrHorspwer]

BYD had big presence at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit for a few years starting in 2009. They were touting their "Green Dreams" lineup of hybrid and EVs, using their "superior" battery tech. I remember this because BYD's chairman drove one of their cars through the hall (which was totally not allowed) to other automakers press conferences.

BYD had plan in 2009 to enter the US auto market in three years.

BYD is now the worlds largest seller of EVs but still isn't in the US market.

Take any automakers plans and roadmaps about entering a new market at a trade show with a grain of salt.

 

[jghall00]

Take any automakers plans and roadmaps about entering a new market at a trade show with a grain of salt.

Fair enough. It's easy to have objectives that change or otherwise that don't pan out. I think it's interesting that it already has subsidiaries selling cars in the U.S. Not sure why it needs to bring the Geely brand instead of leveraging its tech to increase sales of the existing brands. Just thought it was noteworthy that they're considering entering, but this could be premature. One thing is for sure: I'm sure alarm bells have gone off somewhere.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Chinese EV's are effectively banned from entering the US, based on the importation fees that would be incurred (which were not allowed to discuss). Said EV fees existed with the previous administration as well, there not a new thing. On top of that they have been labeled several types of security threat (cyber spying, etc).

I think its safe to say we will be unlikely to see a Chinese EV - at least a cost effective one - anytime soon. Which is unfortunate - I would like to see how a cheap EV did in the US market.

 

[Oldwolf]

The Polestar is the star Polaris which is a visual marker in the night sky indicating very close to magnetic North. I think it is a cool name.

 

[Oldwolf]

I saw a lot of BYD EVs in Brazil a few months ago.

 

[Jango]

I saw a lot of BYD EVs in Brazil a few months ago.

I saw a BYD SUV driving between Tucson and Phoenix a week ago.

 

[jghall00]

Chinese EV's are effectively banned from entering the US, based on the importation fees that would be incurred (which were not allowed to discuss). Said EV fees existed with the previous administration as well, there not a new thing. On top of that they have been labeled several types of security threat (cyber spying, etc).

I think its safe to say we will be unlikely to see a Chinese EV - at least a cost effective one - anytime soon. Which is unfortunate - I would like to see how a cheap EV did in the US market.

To my knowledge, this doesn't preclude domestic manufacturing of Chinese brands. Several Chinese manufacturers, including Geely and Chery, are already doing this in Europe. BYD is opening plants in Hungary and Turkiye. Volvo already has a plant in SC. Just need to get domestic supply chain in place for the parts.

 

[SC Maintenance]

To my knowledge, this doesn't preclude domestic manufacturing of Chinese brands. Several Chinese manufacturers, including Geely and Chery, are already doing this in Europe. BYD is opening plants in Hungary and Turkiye. Volvo already has a plant in SC. Just need to get domestic supply chain in place for the parts.

True. But they can't just ship in and assemble the car. Very important is the battery is made here. I am guessing SK has lots of battery capacity with all the other OEM's models dropping like flies, but that plus US manufacturing costs likely kills the cost advantage, and were back to yet one more $45K small car EV.

 

[jghall00]

True. But they can't just ship in and assemble the car. Very important is the battery is made here. I am guessing SK has lots of battery capacity with all the other OEM's models dropping like flies, but that plus US manufacturing costs likely kills the cost advantage, and were back to yet one more $45K small car EV.

Battery manufacturing is highly automated so I think a lot of the costs comes from the materials. If they manufacture domestically, they'll have the same cost basis as other domestics with the advantage of vertical manufacturing. Last I checked, something like 80 to 90% of the cell costs are from process inputs. I think they could make the cells and put them in the cars with very little margin. Because the domestics are doing their own cells on a per company basis, they can't achieve the same scale as a Company that is making cells for worldwide sale.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Battery manufacturing is highly automated so I think a lot of the costs comes from the materials. If they manufacture domestically, they'll have the same cost basis as other domestics with the advantage of vertical manufacturing. Last I checked, something like 80 to 90% of the cell costs are from process inputs. I think they could make the cells and put them in the cars with very little margin. Because the domestics are doing their own cells on a per company basis, they can't achieve the same scale as a Company that is making cells for worldwide sale.

Believe me, I would love to see a cheap EV from whomever. but I will believe it when I see it.

Battery production are automated in China as well, like most things. China has an estimated 2M industrial robots, compared to USA having less than 1/2 million. Most things from China are cheap because the Chinese government subsidizes them - directly and indirectly. They do so to keep the Chinese population employed and also as a strategy to make the world more dependent on China, giving them more political advantage. EV's were specifically on the Chinese so called 2020 plan.

If they make batteries here it will cost the same as everyone else - whatever that number is. No one in manufacturing has any sustainable long term cost advantage, and since no one sells a cheap EV yet, I have to wonder?

 

[Oillover]

The Polestar is the star Polaris which is a visual marker in the night sky indicating very close to magnetic North. I think it is a cool name.

Stunning!

 

[CKN]

Fair enough. It's easy to have objectives that change or otherwise that don't pan out. I think it's interesting that it already has subsidiaries selling cars in the U.S. Not sure why it needs to bring the Geely brand instead of leveraging its tech to increase sales of the existing brands. Just thought it was noteworthy that they're considering entering, but this could be premature. One thing is for sure: I'm sure alarm bells have gone off somewhere.

They (BYD) are a juggernaut. Underestimating them coming to the U.S. market is not wise. Not sure what the Domestics are worried about. They don't have any entrees in to the sedan market which are plug in or pure EV to begin with-to speak of.

 

[CKN]

To my knowledge, this doesn't preclude domestic manufacturing of Chinese brands. Several Chinese manufacturers, including Geely and Chery, are already doing this in Europe. BYD is opening plants in Hungary and Turkiye. Volvo already has a plant in SC. Just need to get domestic supply chain in place for the parts.

BYD has a factory in California-
China-based BYD, short for “Build Your Dreams," announced on Friday that it will open an electric bus manufacturing facility as well as an iron-phosphate energy module (large-scale battery) manufacturing facility in Lancaster, California.

The plants mark the first manufacturing facilities in the United States.

https://www.industryweek.com/expans...-manufacturing-plants-for-chinese-bus-company

 

[goblin]

I remember seeing a GAC Trumpchi GS7/GS8 at the Elicotville ski resort in 2018-2019ish. It had dealer/testing plates. Didn't have the time to chew the fat with the driver, spoke for about 30 seconds, and he said it's a very decent vehicle. From my not much longer walkaround - it was indeed very decent. Assembly was good, materials were good - I'd say it impressed me more than it didn't. Somewhere around Mitsubishi Outlander size, same vibe.
It was planned for import back then, nothing came out of it.

Around the same time, as a Hyundai owner, I was receiving surveys supposedly about my vehicle, where questions were snuck asking "Would you be ok with owning a Made in China vehicle".

Chinese vehicles are welcome in the US in my book, as long as they are built in the US, like every other major manufacturer does. I'd prefer US made Chinese to a Chinese made GM. And the latter have been sold here for ages.

 

[jghall00]

They (BYD) are a juggernaut. Underestimating them coming to the U.S. market is not wise. Not sure what the Domestics are worried about. They don't have any entrees in to the sedan market which are plug in or pure EV to begin with-to speak of.

Not yet, but that presumes a Chinese competitor would limit competition to segments in which the domestics don't compete. There's no way that would happen...if they come they'll sell whatever people are willing to buy. BYD already has SUV variants of its most popular vehicles. And since those vehicle have the same underpinnings, it provide greater scale to facilitate penetration of more popular vehicle segments.

 

[jghall00]

Believe me, I would love to see a cheap EV from whomever. but I will believe it when I see it.

Battery production are automated in China as well, like most things. China has an estimated 2M industrial robots, compared to USA having less than 1/2 million. Most things from China are cheap because the Chinese government subsidizes them - directly and indirectly. They do so to keep the Chinese population employed and also as a strategy to make the world more dependent on China, giving them more political advantage. EV's were specifically on the Chinese so called 2020 plan.

I agree. So far its industrial policy has been a tremendous success by certain measures. It's a shame western nations have a harder time with long-term goals. But of course there are numerous downsides to the CCPs centralized planning regime. The Chinese populace is basically seeing it QoL constrained by gov't policies.

If they make batteries here it will cost the same as everyone else - whatever that number is. No one in manufacturing has any sustainable long term cost advantage, and since no one sells a cheap EV yet, I have to wonder?

That was my point...if they domesticize production, they'll have the same process input cost as everyone else. But they'll likely have greater scale and vertical integration. So even if they buy the materials at the same cost, they can leverage capital investments more effectively and don't have to earn a profit on the batteries if they're selling the vehicles those batteries go into. GM and Ford cut back on their battery investments recently.

 

[The_Jeff]

So are these guys in Canada yet? That's usually a good way of getting stuff reliable, rust resistant, and suspensions tuned for North American sensibilities (IE, soft.)

That's how Hyundai got their start, selling Ponys up North. They weren't great, but they were cheap, and apparently liked for that alone.

 

[Brons2]

I saw a lot of BYD EVs in Brazil a few months ago.

me too, in November

 

[ME_Andy]

Believe me, I would love to see a cheap EV from whomever. but I will believe it when I see it.

Chevy Equinox, $29k