# Gear noise at hwy speeds, rebuilt 400,000 mile differential

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#### MolaKule

Staff member
is equals nearly by your understanding , and relating is as 'linear' (putting words into my mouth) ???????????????????????????????
Come onnnnnnnnnnn .

1.85 times that of 13 cSt equals 1.8 times the viscosity of..

nearly 1.85 times thicker oil film thickness equals has the same order of oil film thickness.

Dear Mr zeng:

Here is the starement in dispute and if you could concentrate for a moment on it and give us an answer that would be based in physics or engineering or whatever.

Now, Lucas 85W140 in this scenario still deliver far more superior component protection and longevity with nearly 1.85 times thicker oil film thickness/strength , all other things being equal...

You now state:
nearly 1.85 times thicker oil film thickness equals has the same order of oil film thickness.

In mathematics, if there are no higher order terms on the left side of an equation or on the right side of the equation, then as expressed above, this represents a linear relationship.

Upon what technical basis, tribological basis, or fluid dynamics basis do you have that supports this assertion of Equality or Linearity with respect to an Oil's Viscosity and its MOFT?

Again, you now have the opportunity to provide a sufficient scientific explanation as to why that would/should be so.

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#### ABN_CBT_ENGR

Remember, English as a second language and they are taught a bit differently

#### zeng

Remember, English as a second language and they are taught a bit differently
Thank you for helping with explanation .
By A equals B, I meant to convey the crafty twist of narratives by manipulating to general readers deceptively :
-What I said in A word for word is converted/altered/manipulated with words/sentences/narratives in different words in B which I did not specifically say it and meant it (putting words into my mouth, with craftily twisting narratives I do not meant ), deceptively often times by the concerned .
Numericals are altered .
Science conceptuals are altered , for what ?
Ego ?
Superiority ?
Smart ?
Pride ?
..... etc etc ..... never ending just to WIN an argument ?

Come on , have some self esteem in life please .

Edit: I wish to advise the concerned to respectfully asking/seeking further clarification on what is meant or intended by any poster/writer , before habitually replies with different words (for words) craftily twisting intended meaning and narratives , cornering .......................... like in court room .

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#### MolaKule

Staff member
Thank you for helping with explanation .
By A equals B, I meant to convey the crafty twist of narratives by manipulating to general readers deceptively :
-What I said in A word for word is converted/altered/manipulated with words/sentences/narratives in different words in B which I did not specifically say it and meant it (putting words into my mouth, with craftily twisting narratives I do not meant ), deceptively often times by the concerned .
Numericals are altered .
Science conceptuals are altered , for what ?
Ego ?
Superiority ?
Smart ?
Pride ?
..... etc etc ..... never ending just to WIN an argument ?

Come on , have some self esteem in life please .

Edit: I wish to advise the concerned to respectfully asking/seeking further clarification on what is meant or intended by any poster/writer , before habitually replies with different words (for words) craftily twisting intended meaning and narratives , cornering .......................... like in court room .

Let's stick to the subject at hand, answer the question, and stop the obfuscation.

#### OilReport99

By A equals B, I meant to convey the crafty twist of narratives by manipulating to general readers deceptively :
-What I said in A word for word is converted/altered/manipulated with words/sentences/narratives in different words in B which I did not specifically say it and meant it (putting words into my mouth, with craftily twisting narratives I do not meant ), deceptively often times by the concerned .
Numericals are altered .
Science conceptuals are altered , for what ?

For those who didn't get this...

Per A aequalis B, hoc sentiebam ex historiis torquent per be crafti herberarius deferat legentibus callide artificiose deformetur in generali;
Quid dixi, in verbo ad verbum convertitur A / versa vice / in verbis manipulated / sententias / narrationes librorum diversis verbis in specie, B, quae non dicat et ex animo (positio in verbis oris mei et ego non subdole narrationes torquenti intelliguntur), fallax saepe tempora, in quibus id.
Numericals alterantur.
Conceptuals novam illis aliamque quam scientia: nam quid?

#### Astro14

##### \$100 Site Donor
Staff member
It’s gibberish in either form.

#### JHZR2

Staff member
Show me proof where increasing the viscosity results in a LINEAR MOFT vs viscosity

Seems to me that this is the crux of the matter. Mr. Zeng should be able to provide objective evidence to validate his assumptions, beyond simple math.

#### zeng

Seems to me that this is the crux of the matter. Mr. Zeng should be able to provide objective evidence to validate his assumptions, beyond simple math.
This is exactly how a sincere request seeking further clarification , politely and respectfully , or variations of it ,should have been presented and not :

Show me proof where increasing the viscosity results in a LINEAR MOFT vs viscosity.
in a condecending , arrogant , superiority,snobbish,scornful manners full of disrepect ,rude and impolite with a tone of demanding proof......
and unilaterally inserting a new 'word' LINEAR as if it is mine , with bad covert motive if I may suggest .............. .

Lucas 85W140 ... delivers a higher operating viscosity of 24 cSt, which is 1.85 times that of 13 cSt of 'improved' Schaeffer 293 .

Now, Lucas 85W140 in this scenario still deliver far more superior component protection and longevity with nearly 1.85 times thicker oil film thickness/strength ........

If only one has responded the above quote politely, respectly and courteously with no evil motive seeking clarification like
Do you mean to suggest Lucas 85W140 ....... with nearly linear 1.85 times thicker oil film thickness/strength.....
I may have responded in a 'as a matter fact way' with :
In this context , I may have (or have) no objection to your suggestion/interpretation that it is so.... .....

The point I am trying to relay here is : during exchanges, please behave in a manner generating positive energy/or whatever !

JHZR2 and OP ,

The relationship of oil film thickness correlates to "operating viscosity to the exponential power(e) of value y" ,
where, the value y is not 1.0 , which would have meant linear/proportional relationship .....
This is not the case here , as my use of the word " nearly 1.85 times thicker oil film thickness" and LINEAR are divergent . .....
I respect your right to disagree with me here and I would respect opposite position . That's fine with me as that's life .
I am fully aware of trick behind the use of newly inserted terminology like linear .
Rather deceptive and .....................

Now, IIRC the 'e' exponential value of y above varies , between 0.65 and 0.99
1.0 is definitely excluded .

Heck, we are missing the forest for the trees here .

Thousand apologies to OP and general readers .

#### MolaKule

Staff member
in a condecending , arrogant , superiority,snobbish,scornful manners full of disrepect ,rude and impolite with a tone of demanding proof......
and unilaterally inserting a new 'word' LINEAR as if it is mine , with bad covert motive if I may suggest...

People are only requesting proof of what you stated.

You seem to prefer to want to get into personal conflicts and name calling rather than provide any data supporting your off-side statements. You can NOT know the intentions of respondents.

...The relationship of oil film thickness correlates to "operating viscosity to the exponential power(e) of value y" ,
where, the value y is not 1.0 , which would have meant linear/proportional relationship .....
This is not the case here , as my use of the word " nearly 1.85 times thicker oil film thickness" and LINEAR are divergent . .....
I respect your right to disagree with me here and I would respect opposite position . That's fine with me as that's life .
I am fully aware of trick behind the use of newly inserted terminology like linear .
Rather deceptive and...

The term nearly equal does not convey any accuracy and it leaves open to interpretation as to what you meant to say.

For anyone interested in the topic of MOFT in mechanical mechanisms it is suggested they read and study some very good papers on MOFT:

A Numerical solution to the eleastrohydrodynamic problem, by D. Dowson, and G.R. Higins,, Journal of Mechanical Engineering Science, 1958: 1, pp. 6-15.

A central film Thickness formula in EHD line contacts, by D. Dowson and A. Toyoda, Proceedings of the 5th Leeds_Lyon Symposium on, Eleastrohydrodynamic Lubrication and Related Topics, pp. 60-65, 1978, MEP Press, London, 1979.

Basics of EHL for practical application, H. Spikes, Tribology Group, Department of Mechanical Engineering , Imperial College, London UK.

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#### MattPersman

I’m not the the credentials of these others like Molekule but however regarding differentials.

I have seen well heard many over the years of doing this auto mechanics thing for a living of a gear set getting a noise in a small window of vehicle speed. Typically it’s the spot where the owner or previous owner operator spent the majority of timing operating the vehicle

have seen them at 40-45 and 50-60. 60-70 you get my drift.

Now don’t get me wrong there could be something not quite right in the set up. Say it’s Backlash looking for 5-15 thou and it’s at 4.5 or 16. Could be pinion depth. Turning torque

could also just be noisy gears. Some brands of aftermarket gears were noisy compared to others. These also have some miles on them and just could be noisy from use.

I would just pick a fluid you feel good about and run that

#### apham8

I have seen well heard many over the years of doing this auto mechanics thing for a living of a gear set getting a noise in a small window of vehicle speed. Typically it’s the spot where the owner or previous owner operator spent the majority of timing operating the vehicle

have seen them at 40-45 and 50-60. 60-70 you get my drift.

Thank you for the reply MattPersman, this definitely seems possible for this particular vehicle. The previous owner put almost 400,000 miles on the vehicle, doing about 25,000 miles per year. Assuming that most of those miles were highway miles, it would certainly seem that the 60-70 mph groan would likely be related to the speed where the previous owner "spent the majority of time operating the vehicle."

Update on Schaeffer's 293 75W-90, the lower weight gear oil does allow more "noise" to come through, but I'm more comfortable hearing it now since I have some notion of what I'm hearing.

#### Astro14

##### \$100 Site Donor
Staff member
Folks, the points on this thread have some merit. There have been some emotional and misleading posts, some of which I’ve removed. I’m locking it, however, as the salient points have been made.

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