Gas prices shot up 50-60 cents in one day

[Trvlr500]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
I see what you mean about China but they haven't really abandoned communism at all. They are just moving towards Fascism which is where we are.


I agree with you entirely, except in one respect, and that is purely an issue of definitions. I believe that there are only two genuine political philosophies, enduring through time: totalitarianism and libertarianism.

Thus, in my view, fascism and communism are both totalitarian versions of socialism, with emphasis on their totalitarian nature.

Bill Clinton and Tony Blair claimed that they were for a Third Way, something in between freedom and tyranny. Again, in my view, that is just a slower path to totalitarianism.

I would like to point out that protectionism is not a viable policy. China is not beating us because we engage in free trade, but because we need to borrow so much money from them. Given that they obtain X number of dollars every year from the goods they sell us, they can buy US goods or US T-bonds. If we had a balanced budget, there would be no T-bonds for them to buy.

So this is not actually a trade issue; instead it is a fiscal policy issue and also a monetary policy issue.


I agree, Tornado. Communism and Fascism are just "methods" to take a country to totalitarianism. In reality a dictatorship is a dictatorship no matter how it got that way.

I got off on a tangent with the trade stuff.

 

[Trvlr500]

As for WWI/WWII, in the long run it will probably make sense to consider them together, with the Second World War as a continuation of the First. I suspect that in the 1300s nobody was calling the Hundred Years' War by that name.

Tornado,

World War 1 and 2 were instigated the same way the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were instigated. Without WW 1 and 2 we never would have been "tricked" into joining the U.N. which is nothing short of a communist organization and a criminal enterprise just like the IMF, World Bank and WTO are.

If you can even find a copy of the U.N. "Habitat Treaty 1" or the "Habitat Treaty 2" which I have a copy of (I think) it's quite easy to see the Communist Manifesto just reprinted in other words. The U.N. is now dictating our foreign policy and is gaining control of our courts at a rapid pace as well as our economy.

Habitat 1 was so over the top they had to scuttle it and re-write it. Most of our national parks are now U.N. controlled since they are labeled "World Heritage Parks". The U.N. website has a list of them.

No one was dumb enough to fall for the League of Nations after WW 1 so WW 2 was started and after that the U.N. was formed and we were stupid enough to become a member just like so many other countries did. The reason? World peace. We have a LOT of that now don't we.

The big picture is quite huge when someone stands back and actually LOOKS at it. Natural resources are a LARGE part of why these wars are started.

Afghanistan/poppies and lithium. Iraq/oil and the fact that in the Middle East interest is illegal and there is no central bank where gold is still king. Lybia/oil and they now have a NEW central bank. Vietnam/ rubber. We can look forward to going into Venezuela eventually for the oil.

These days they don't even need a real reason as we can see with Yemen and Lybia. They just go and do it while they feed the masses some cock and bull story about why they are there. Since the world has so many evil dictators it's always easy to find a villain to make the story "believable".

Foreign policy under this president is exactly the same as our last one. Nothing has changed. I wonder why?

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
I got off on a tangent with the trade stuff.


That's okay, trade issues are worth discussing. But it is too easy for these discussions to turn into blame games, where the country with the trade deficit is the victim of the surplus country. In the case of the US and China, China has benefited from bad US policies.

Before China, it was Japan who had the big surplus, and before that Germany. One could go all the way back to the Johnson Administration in the 1960s, when the the US began to run deficits without end and became a borrower nation instead of a lender nation; Nixon only codified this situation when he abandoned the gold standard.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

I don't think China has a free market at all really, its probably more of an example of a market not just regulated by government but actively directed and managed by government. Large and small companies may not be owned by the communist party but whatever they want to happen, haappens.
Personally I think the main reason the US economy is going down the drain, is free trade with countries like China that have so many advantages in production over us. Why we let big business and our governments do this to the average joe is beyond me.

China isn't a free market but they have moved a LOT closer and their people are far better off because of it.

And I take it that you would like to start a trade war with China?


I take it you approve of the current trade deficite we have with China?

 

[Vikas]

American business are doing great all over the world! It their low (and mid) level American employees that are not doing well at all.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: grampi

I take it you approve of the current trade deficite we have with China?

Yes. It shows that we are a rich country that can afford to buy things from others. It is also us receiving real goods for increasingly worthless electrons (fiat money).

 

[Trvlr500]

China has been buying our debt for some time. What we have been borrowing money FOR is the problem. This country is only rich on paper now. Worthless paper. Yet they just keep spending and spending and spending.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: grampi

I take it you approve of the current trade deficite we have with China?

Yes. It shows that we are a rich country that can afford to buy things from others. It is also us receiving real goods for increasingly worthless electrons (fiat money).


Maybe you should look up the word deficite. It's not a good thing.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: grampi

Maybe you should look up the word deficite. It's not a good thing.

We've had a trade deficit for over 30 years, yet we are still the largest economy on the earth. Please explain.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: grampi

Maybe you should look up the word deficite. It's not a good thing.

We've had a trade deficit for over 30 years, yet we are still the largest economy on the earth. Please explain.


No we're not, China is...

 

[Vikas]

Really? Is China the largest economy on the earth? Why do you want to lose your credibility over such a silly claim? For the record, US economy is roughly three times the size of China's economy but that ratio is shrinking fast.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Really? Is China the largest economy on the earth? Why do you want to lose your credibility over such a silly claim? For the record, US economy is roughly three times the size of China's economy but that ratio is shrinking fast.


Why do you think that ratio is shrinking fast? It wouldn't have anything to do with the trade deficite, would it?

 

[Vikas]

Certainly but saying that "China has bigger economy than US" is plainly wrong.

 

[ZZman]

China will be when all their people buy junk like we do.

 

[DirtyApe]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Been dropping here recently, locally ~$3.59. But, 4-6 weeks back, it dropped ~$0.10 one day, then the it rose $0.20 the next day.

But count your blessings. Goldman Sachs says gas will be at $5 a gallon, oil $135 a barrel this summer. You remember Goldman, they're a the guys that were selling mortgage backed CDO's to investors, while betting heavily against them. So, if anyone can make it happen, Goldman should know.

what happened to this ^^ ?

 

[daves87rs]

Soon....just wait...