Gas prices shot up 50-60 cents in one day

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
You ARE bidding...the price on the sign goes up, which is contractually an "offer"...you drive in and pick up the pump,put it in your tank and fill, you have accepted the offer, and are in contract to pay.

If you then choose to put only a quarter or half tank in, rather than fill because maybe it will come down mid week, and the money is better in your pocket than an overpriced tank of fuel, you've joined the ranks of speculators.

Choose to walk to the shops for the rest of the week,or buy dinner on the way home from work rather than make a trip out for it, coupled with only buying a part tank, you are participating in sending signals to the petrol station that they should drop their prices to get their volume back.


A consumer or user of oil products is a hedger not a speculator. A speculator is someone who trades in oil/gas futures who's business is not involved with oil and gas. Hedgers belong in the market and exist normally whereas IMO speculators should not.

As far as this pipeline disruption, how do we really know it is completely legit and not at least partly a tactic to limit supply or cause the perception of limited supply to drive up price? It seems like everyday there's some supply issue excuse popping up anymore

.

 

[ZZman]

Isn't that the truth.

Always some issue crops up.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
No they don't...in Oz,that would get you jail time.

I worked in a shell service station on a crossroads in the 80s. Very same intersection, there was our Shell, a Caltex, a BP, and an off brand "Total".

Part of my job was to watch the signs, see the changes, and report to management, who would tell me to change the prices, usually to the same as the main brands, and 0.1c/l higher than the Total...if it took an hour, I was in trouble.


That was 80's this is now.

At least in Canada, we have this hand dandy website called: Tomorrows gas prices today, it is updated at 5pm every day, except weekends, and it will tell you the price at the pump for the next day. In Toronto and surrounding areas, every single major gas station will have that price. Some smaller, independent gas stations will differ, but all the “top tier” stations will have that exact price.

So, you tell me if there is no collusion.

Ohh, and i forgot one little detail, all the prices for the next day will change exactly at midnight on all gas stations.

So yeah, free market at play, yet every single government inquiry found nothing, how could they when they set those rules up and just feed us fairy tales????

 

[Trvlr500]

Quote:
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
As far as this pipeline disruption, how do we really know it is completely legit and not at least partly a tactic to limit supply or cause the perception of limited supply to drive up price? It seems like everyday there's some supply issue excuse popping up anymore

.

I agree. Did the supply system not have ANY problems over the past number of decades, and only now do we have supply problems? I kind of doubt it.

There is always some sort of supply problem going on. It could be an equipment failure. It could be the government going in there for a "safety check" and finding something wrong. As in the case of Katrina it could be weather related.

When I was hauling coal for a living it was a weekly occurrence for the mine to be shut down for a whole myraid of problems. Eventually, that mine caught on fire and was shut down indefinitely. Oil wells, refineries and pipelines all have problems from time to time. I've seen them shut down an entire frac operation because of one pump.

You will notice that the states with their own oil and refineries "usually" have lower gas prices unless they have a state legislature that loves to tax or won't let them drill for it. California is a prime example.

There is no telling exactly why the price of oil and gas rise and fall the way they do in just one state or another. I'm sure it has to do with a many reasons we down here at street level don't recognize. In Michigan I wouldn't doubt that it has to do with taxation. They are NOT doing well there.

 

[Trvlr500]

Steven Chu, the present energy secreatary said this in 2009

"Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September.

Ken Salazar, the present secretary of the interior did this recently:

"Interior Secretary Ken Salazar yesterday canceled oil and gas leases on 77 parcels of federal land."

There isn't really any need to "wonder" why we have high gas prices when we aren't allowed to drill for our own oil and we have an "Energy Secretary" who WANTS the price of gas to go to $8 or $9 dollars a gallon.

I would list the sources of these two pieces of information but I'd hate to be labeled "as starting a political discussion". Besides, it takes all of about 5 minutes for anyone to find it.

The facts are the facts though. Since I live in Utah I can attest to the fact that Salazar did what he did. As for Chu, his past speaks for itself.

When your own energy secretary wants to drive up the cost of your gas and the secretary of the interior is in on it guess what happens. The price of gas goes up.

 

[crinkles]

Here, US$ per barrel is lower than at the spike in 2008.

The Aus $ is worth 20% more than then.

Yet, we're paying prices similar to the spike. right now.

Happy to have (very little) stock in chevron, exxon, shell etc. but c'mon.

 

[Shannow]

Crinkles,
I keep e-mailing the news services to dig up the footage of Costello and the boss of Caltex telling us (during rising oil prices and falling dollar) that every dollar oil rose was 1c/l at the pumps,and every cent the $Oz dropped was1c/l at the pumps.

Even using that math as opposed to the $Oz being worth 60-70% more now, we should be around $1/L

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Ohh, and i forgot one little detail, all the prices for the next day will change exactly at midnight on all gas stations.

So yeah, free market at play, yet every single government inquiry found nothing, how could they when they set those rules up and just feed us fairy tales????


If you read my sig, you'll see that I'm as untrusting of the "system" as any man...

However, we also receive some training in Competition Law, which at least makes sense of those inquiries.

In order to prove collusion, you have to prove that two parties met and essentially shook on the deal.

Retailer A selling bananas at $6.49/lb, then the supermarkets following suit such that the only way to get cheaper bananas is to drive 45 miles is not collusion.

It might suck to want to eat a banana in my town, but it's not collusion.

I'd welcome a system where I knew tomorrow's fuel price today...beats driving to work, passing a station and thinking "must fill up on the way home", and finding it 6c/l dearer on the way home.

 

[crinkles]

We've given up on Banana's, can't remember when last I had one. Thing of the past!

 

[LTVibe]

Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
When your own energy secretary wants to drive up the cost of your gas and the secretary of the interior is in on it guess what happens. The price of gas goes up.

It's part of their environmental agenda. Forcing up the price of coal and oil makes expensive alternative energy sources appear more viable.

 

[MonumentOiler]

Is there a Banana shortage down under ?

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
In Michigan I wouldn't doubt that it has to do with taxation. They are NOT doing well there.

No, it's not the taxes. For example, the gas tax in Michigan is only 4¢ more than Florida.
http://www.commonsensejunction.com/notes/gas-tax-rate.html

Yet the price of gas is at least 50¢ more.
http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

 

[Papa Bear]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
No they don't...in Oz,that would get you jail time.

I worked in a shell service station on a crossroads in the 80s. Very same intersection, there was our Shell, a Caltex, a BP, and an off brand "Total".

Part of my job was to watch the signs, see the changes, and report to management, who would tell me to change the prices, usually to the same as the main brands, and 0.1c/l higher than the Total...if it took an hour, I was in trouble.


Worked the exact opposite here in Ontario Canada in the'80's. Wife and I operated a Shell from '84 to '87 and our price was dictated by the regional manager in our area. He would call and tell us what price to change to and we had about an hour to do it. Failure to comply with pricing directive was NOT tolerated... march in step or be disciplined/cutoff.
The major oil companies would take turns leading the changes so the price changes appeared random. Our director would call and say "It's our turn to up the prices"... so I would do it and business was slow for an hour or so until the others were notified and followed suit. Oil company gas stations here (at any given point in time in the region) are always exactly the same price.. give or take 1/10 of a cent. I'm sure if you asked any owner/manager in Ontario why his price was what it was would say "Because I was told to post it at that price."

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: MonumentOiler
Is there a Banana shortage down under ?


Yep, all of our bananas are in one area (not far from crinkles' place),and got wiped out by a tropical cyclone...again.

 

[spackard]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: MonumentOiler
Is there a Banana shortage down under ?


Yep, all of our bananas are in one area (not far from crinkles' place),and got wiped out by a tropical cyclone...again.


The things one learns on the Internet, in an oil forum even. I passed the info on to my wife, who was wondering about the shortage of bananas in the supermarkets.

 

[mechanicx]

Yes! We have no bananas

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Plenty of bananas in AK.
Must be the hardy northern variety.

 

[grampi]

Wow! I wish I could drastically increase my pay simply by not being able to perform as well as I normally do. How many businesses are there where they're always guaranteed to make money no matter what, other than in the oil undustry?

 

[Shannow]

During summer this year, diesel was below regular for months,something that I've not seen as a diesel owner for the last 11-12 years.

Now winter has hit, diesel is 10c/l up on RUG...maybe something to do with heating oil ?

 

[Trvlr500]

Originally Posted By: LTVibe
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
When your own energy secretary wants to drive up the cost of your gas and the secretary of the interior is in on it guess what happens. The price of gas goes up.

It's part of their environmental agenda. Forcing up the price of coal and oil makes expensive alternative energy sources appear more viable.



That is one of the reasons they are doing it. Solar, wind and ethanol, are a joke for anyone who knows better. They are pricey, bad for the environment and the only reason windmills, solar panels and ethanol are even in the market place is because the tax payer is funding it. Even "real" environmentalists are whining about what windmills, solar panels and ethanol are doing.


The only way they can get people to swallow the poison pill is to destroy viable sources of energy that actually work. I also can't help but wonder if one of the reasons they are lying about the huge oil reserves we have here is that the dollar is pegged to oil.

If they actually open up everything they have for drilling it may cause catastrophic damage to their already worthless currency which has been unconstitutionally pegged to oil since the early 70's when we were completely taken off of the gold standard.

Printing up trillions out of thin air over the last 2 years and going to a "debt based" economy decades ago hasn't exactly helped either.

People need to stop parroting the propaganda they hear. It's not "big oil", it's not "the speculators".

It's "The Banks" and it isn't just energy they are making a mess of with either.