Full synthetic oils and stop-n-go driving?

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX

I have a question to this...and I don't know the answer(s).
Does a satisfactory UOA as explained in the examples by Dnewton3 where wear metals are low ensure your engine is not producing and applying sludge to its internals? In other words can sludge be produced when TBN levels appear satisfactory? That begs another question....are the same satisfactory TBN levels identical for all cars/engines/uses?


I don't have all the answers,

but I have been gathering that it is the "insoluables" number that you need to watch

to prevent sludge buildup.

 

[anndel]

Originally Posted By: Vlad_the_Russian

This kind of serious issues. 90k miles on conventional in northern regions of US. AFAIK manufacturer recommended OCIs. BUT northern regions and a lot of stop-n-go and short trips did it's job here. The car still ran "fine" without engine issues, but engine failure was only one chunk of sludge in a pick up tube away.

Is this the part where I drop the mic? Catch it buddy.


Wow! If this is my car I'd pull the engine and do a complete overhaul to start over with a clean engine.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
It is statistically improbable, if not impossible, for any syn to outperform a dino oil in 5k miles of use. 5k miles of "severe" driving does not bring out any disparity in contrast of the two lubes. So many folks cry out that syns are "cheap insurance". Bovine Manure! They are neither cheap, nor insurance. They are a waste under the type conditions you operate.


Key word being "conditions"

The only two exceptions:
.
1) Severe cold: people living in West Yellowstone (−66 °F) or International Falls (−46 °F) or anywhere in between might seriously consider going with a synthetic that has exceptional cold pour point capabilities.
.
2) People who tow a lot, without a towing package (extra oil cooler).
This one bit me (I admit)- Even though coolant temps were fine, I "welded" the rings in the pistons of a 5.0 Ford that saw a LOT (I mean hours on end) of full throttle towing. I think synthetic might have saved it. It was bad, I tried to free the rings out of the grooves and just gave up and ordered new pistons and rings. All the rod bearing were gone too, but the crank was fine.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: anndel

Wow! If this is my car I'd pull the engine and do a complete overhaul to start over with a clean engine.


Shhhhh.... in the "real world" as long as it was running fine, car owners REALLY DON'T CARE.

Besides - all you see is "some sludge"....
It is impossible to determine the serviceability of this engine from just that one picture.

If that car came into my shop for a "valve cover gasket change", I'd hit the interior surfaces with a power washer, slap the cover on temporarily, run it for a few minutes for the oil to wash the water off everything, then assemble it properly. (then oil change) and I guarantee you that is more than what most any auto repair shop would do.

 

[crazy_raccoon]

I'm just trying to get some insight in here even though I had a feeling I may get heavily biased opinions. Run down;

- '07 Scion tc
- 2AZ-FE engine
- Motor seems to eat a some oil at 5K OCIs (4 qts at a full, 1.5 to 2 qts drain out)
- There is a TSB for our motors for oil consumption due to faulty piston design when they switched over to light weight oils from CAFE regulations (burning over a 1 qt at 1200 miles is a fail per the dealer test. I passed both times I did it)
- 9/10 years of the life's car I've used only;
1-Mobil 1 5W-20 FS
2-Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 and 5W-20 FS
3-Currently running Valvoline Synpower w/Maxlife 0W-20 as of 2 weeks ago
- I do a lot of short, stop and go driving due to me being close to work (stationed at local base and live close off post)
- Used only these filters;
1-Toyota OEM
2-FRAM Ultra
3-Mobil 1
4-K&N
5-Currently running FRAM Ultra and probably will from now on because it's the best bang for the money, I can get it cheap on base and I've never had a single problem with either of our cars with that filter.
- Before this recent oil change I did run some Seafoam through the crankcase for 100 miles to see if really did clean out some junk if there were any.

I don't have the time or money to rip apart the engine to find out the real issue and Toyota won't cover it because they said I barely burned enough oil to fail. Thank you all so far for your opinions and experiences. As what some people have said already, I really do hate when people tend to hear something from someone else and carry it on as fact without any real evidence to back up such claims. It's no better than high school kids spreading rumors.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: crazy_raccoon

- Motor seems to eat a some oil at 5K OCIs (4 qts at a full, 1.5 to 2 qts drain out)


YIKES!! Why are you letting your engine get 2 to 2.5 quarts low between oil changes?

I wouldn't waste money on synthetic oil. This engine is on hospice care now.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: crazy_raccoon

- Before this recent oil change I did run some Seafoam through the crankcase for 100 miles to see if really did clean out some junk if there were any.


Do this some day when you won't need the car for a bit.

1) Pull all 4 plugs
2) Get the pistons all pretty close to the same height (Mid-stroke)
3) Pour a few tablespoons of sea-foam in each plug hole. Use a small funnel with a long hose if needed.
4) Wait a few hour, do it again. Use up the whole can. Put the plugs back in.

Let it sit for a day and soak. The start it up (it'll smoke a bit) and resume life as normal.

Hey, it can't hurt - - but does have the potential to make a positive difference.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
It is statistically improbable, if not impossible, for any syn to outperform a dino oil in 5k miles of use. 5k miles of "severe" driving does not bring out any disparity in contrast of the two lubes. So many folks cry out that syns are "cheap insurance". Bovine Manure! They are neither cheap, nor insurance. They are a waste under the type conditions you operate.


Key word being "conditions"

The only two exceptions:
.
1) Severe cold: people living in West Yellowstone (−66 °F) or International Falls (−46 °F) or anywhere in between might seriously consider going with a synthetic that has exceptional cold pour point capabilities.
.
2) People who tow a lot, without a towing package (extra oil cooler).
This one bit me (I admit)- Even though coolant temps were fine, I "welded" the rings in the pistons of a 5.0 Ford that saw a LOT (I mean hours on end) of full throttle towing. I think synthetic might have saved it. It was bad, I tried to free the rings out of the grooves and just gave up and ordered new pistons and rings. All the rod bearing were gone too, but the crank was fine.


3. Engines that have an abnormal propensity to shear VII's may benefit from a synthetic oil with less VII in it, thus reducing shear and subsequently viscosity loss.

 

[mclasser]

I do a lot of short trips and use syn oil. My commute is 3 miles @35-40 mph, which especially in the winter means nothing gets to operating temperature.

 

[crazy_raccoon]

I saw a few videos of people doing that to break their rings free and get the oil drainage holes to clear out due to deposit build up. I'll probably give it a shot the next oil change. I'm going to see if this high mileage Maxlife oil will do the trick. I'm systematically ruling things out one by one.

 

[Dallas69]

My truck takes 6 qts and I just hate having to open that extra qt.
But somehow I manage.
Life is sooo hard.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

3. Engines that have an abnormal propensity to shear VII's may benefit from a synthetic oil with less VII in it, thus reducing shear and subsequently viscosity loss.


I don't consider this to be a "Variable operating condition" - sounds like bad engine design, to me -
- something the owner doesn't have any control over
(unless you sell said car with inferior engine design and buy a different one)

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If your car doesn't consume much oil, synthetic oil would be great for protecting in all those cold starts and putting up with the fuel dilution.

If your car consumes a lot of oil, short trips and mild use might allow oil to accumulate in the combustion chambers, which might cause other problems. Might be best to stick with a conventional, as that might burn off more easily.


Are you recommending using a di-ester based PCMO? Because this is the only "superior" performing base regarding fuel dilution.

It's my understanding that synthetic oils tend to have better oxidative stability, less volatility, and better performance reserves to begin with; that means they'll tend to be better at resisting at least some of the ill effects of fuel dilution, and less likely to drop below a given level of performance.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: WylieCoyote
I'm looking forward to someone creating a 6-quart jug and offering rebates on those. All three of my vehicles take 6 quarts. I'd love to return to being able to pour in an entire jug, and be done.

Six quarts isn't too obnoxious. At least one could do a case of twelve for two changes or a case of six for one. Yes, the cost isn't quite as attractive, but sometimes one can do okay with quarts/litres. Sometimes, distributors sell the same price per volume unit regardless of container size (outside of bulk).

 

[dnewton3]

He's run a litany of syns and premium filters, but not taken any UOAs (or at least not put up the data from them, when I asked about establishing a baseline). Then he ran some SeaFoam in the crankcase, but has no idea if it actually did anything of value or not. And now he want's to know if he's wasting money?

Clearly the OP would rather bench race this to a conclusion; typical BITOGer.

 

[crazy_raccoon]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
He's run a litany of syns and premium filters, but not taken any UOAs (or at least not put up the data from them, when I asked about establishing a baseline). Then he ran some SeaFoam in the crankcase, but has no idea if it actually did anything of value or not. And now he want's to know if he's wasting money?

Clearly the OP would rather bench race this to a conclusion; typical BITOGer.


Hey pal, I'm actually agreeing with you in your original post. I was just saying that people here get so caught up in this [censored] they get their panties in a bunch when they don't get the proper response when tons of other people replying to the same post. I've never done a UOA, I'm still learning how this forum works, I plan on doing a UOA soon but haven't because I've been so busy in the military I can't just take time off and do what ever the [censored] I need to until now since I relocated and as knowledgeable and helpful as you sound, please don't be those typical keyboard warriors on the internet and I guess don't be the typical BITOGer yourself. Like I said before, I'm still learning, this is what I've used, and this is what I've done so far and I will follow suit with good advise and tips from all of you.

I have received a bottle from Blackstone and will try to do a UOA on the next OCI if I don't deploy again. Thank you anyways and thank you from everyone else.

 

[tsmay51]

Originally Posted By: ron17571
If you change your oil three times a year, Synthetic oil is like ten bucks more a gallon.So 30 dollars more to have the best kind of oil in your machine.


+1. Thank you. Without any specials on the oil you are correct. Seems like alot of overthinking in this post to me.