Fuel Tanker Driver Here

[GoldDot40]

Originally Posted by tahoe_hybrid
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
GoldDot40,

How accurate is the octane the consumer gets at the pump ?

Is there an acceptable + / - percentage of accuracy ?

Welcome to BITOG.

It's pretty accurate if you look at how it's broken down on the Bill of Laden/Freight manifest. There is a +/- % window that is considered acceptable by all standards. I've never seen one load out of spec that was loaded correctly.

There are times when a driver works while distracted and may preset the load incorrectly. So if I have a 2100 gallon compartment and accidentally preset the system for 3100 gallons, it's going to pump 310 gallons of ethanol...so if I catch it and stop the loading at 2100 gallons, now it is out of spec. I cannot deliver product that far off. I can't even get a legit manifest. The terminal operator will bring out a big red stamp and will stamp your manifest "OUT OF SPEC" before he hands it to you. That is a nightmare all in itself.

they sell it as E30 or E85

Not if there's no stations around that have E85 or E30. Where I live, I've yet to even see an E85 retailer.

 

[GoldDot40]

Another FYI. If you live in a rural enough area where emission inspections aren't required, it's a good possibility that there is no switch between Summer and Winter blend gasolines. Not a single terminal where I load switches. It's the same year round.

However, in metro areas it DOES change. I cannot legally take gasoline from my primary terminal to counties that require emissions testing. There was a driver with a different company who did this about 4 years ago. He did it because his dispatch gave him the order...he didn't know any better. It was caught during an audit. The carrier was fined $10K. The driver was fined $5K. He was suspended to load at the terminal for 1 year.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by bbhero
Unless the rules have changed.... Which they may very well have... And add in the fact the Yorktown refinery closed down in 2010. Things were different in my area... My step father worked at the local Amoco refinery from 1978-2007.

Here in eastern Va and Maryland Eastern shore Amoco oil refinery made all the gasoline for all the stations on the eastern shore Delmarva. No matter what the signs were outside those stations... Exxon, BP Citgo... All that gas was actually Amoco gasoline made at that refinery. Amoco did not give the stations their Ultimate 93 gasoline. The refinery made a different 93 for those stations. My step father told me that the Amoco refinery made the gas has close has they could to be similar like Exxon or whoever they maybe if it was the premium gasoline. But the 87 regular gasoline was Amoco otherwise put in the tanker trucks or barges.

This dove tails with what Chris142 has stated already. In his area Shell and Chevron are out in his area...

The colonial pipeline has a spur that goes to the Amoco docks. The plantation pipeline. Now that pipeline supplies my area and others obviously. The old refinery site now is a storage area for transportation father up the east coast.

The only thing that makes gasoline brands different is when it is loaded on the truck. All base gasoline that comes out of the refinery and into the pipeline is the same. The additive package that is injected during the loaded process is what makes Amoco, Amoco or Shell, Shell, or BP, BP, etc etc.



That gasoline from the refinery in Yorktown...

Went DIRECTLY to those stations.... At that time.

No additives from Citgo, Exxon, Chevron etc etc etc...

It was not put in a pipeline.... Went via barge or truck.

It was Amoco gas start to finish. Period.... The 87 was all Amoco gas in the Delmarva during that time. No matter what those stores marquee was. That gasoline was all Amoco gas/additives sent to those stores on the eastern shore. It was that way all the way until or close to when at least BP took control of the refinery.


That was the way it was then...

Again... The refinery did shut down. And the rules/regulations may well have changed.

 

[bbhero]

On a side note...

You have added a lot of very helpful and accurate informationon here in a very short period of time.

I appreciate your answers on here. Really great job on your part.



I will ask my step father if he knew about the processes that were happening on the Delmarva awhile ago. It could have easily well been that the barge delivery to the eastern shore was transferred to tank farms... Then the additives were added at the rack... Which did "brand" those gasoline's over there.

I do know a lot of trucks did leave the refinery from the rack... However, that refinery had hardly no contracts with fuel suppliers in either the Richmond area or Hampton roads area. Which was strange. That did change with BP. That did make the refinery a money making facility. Prior to that the very small Yorktown refinery was used by Amoco has a testing ground. The refinery either made or lost a million dollars a year for decades. When BP took over it was making more and more money has time went on. Then BP sold the refinery to Giant... Who continued the success BP had started. Then Giant sold the refinery to Western... Western attempted to develope a way to get low grade crude and turn it into gasoline. Western stock went from $14 a share to $82 a share right as this new process was set to start production. This process was very, very expensive to the tune of $200 million dollars. At least that what was reported publicly. My step father stated it was in fact well, well more than that. Actually $400 million dollars. This new process was dangerous and had severe trouble from the very beginning. I talked with a operator who worked at the refinery who told me how bad it went down. That it was constantly having issues and shut downs routinely. After that whole debacle failed totally Western shut down the refinery.

 

[wensteph]

At least in GA and branded fuels we've learned we're buying what we think we are buying.

 

[kstanf150]

GoldDot40
I really do appreciate your info and knowledge on this matter.
I've always wondered if I'm really getting what I'm paying for from the stand point of brand advertising (Shell V-Power ) and like the many other major brands who claim their gas is better then the other guys.
Thanks for the job you do everyday and thanks for being here on this site with first hand knowledge that's accurate and really !!!

 

[GoldDot40]

It's all good folks. I try to help people out with knowledge on a lot of things I've done over the years.

I used to be a wealth of knowledge about motor oils too. I worked in and managed fast lube facilities for 13 years. I've been out of the loop on motor oils and filters for over 12 years now and I see a LOT has changed since I was in it.

Got out of the oil change business and ran a delivery route for a Anheuser-Busch wholesale distributor for 8 years. Talk about putting your body through the ringer.

Worked a short stint hauling construction/building materials at Lowe's with their flatbed and Moffett lift...been hauling fuel ever since.

I could easily do this until I'm ready to retire.

 

[wensteph]

GoldDot, there is a current thread on the Diesel Alternative Fuel forum asking if all diesel is now B5. Same question comes up every so often. I'm not sure how anyone would know "all". I don't think GA ever did, but some bio mix used to mandated in some states. With the loss of some tax incentives that seems to have gone by the wayside. Are you aware of a bio component in the diesel you draw, or is it all D2?

 

[GoldDot40]

Originally Posted by wensteph
GoldDot, there is a current thread on the Diesel Alternative Fuel forum asking if all diesel is now B5. Same question comes up every so often. I'm not sure how anyone would know "all". I don't think GA ever did, but some bio mix used to mandated in some states. With the loss of some tax incentives that seems to have gone by the wayside. Are you aware of a bio component in the diesel you draw, or is it all D2?

Every manifest I get when I load Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel #2 has an asterisk beside it. In the notes, it says "May contain up to 5% biodiesel and up to 5% renewable diesel. This is what is delivered to every retail location that sells hwy use diesel....be it a truck stop or regular gas station.

 

[wensteph]

Ah. The dreaded "may".

 

[GoldDot40]

Originally Posted by wensteph
Ah. The dreaded "may".

Next time I talk to one of the terminal operators, I'll ask and see what they say. Have to be careful engaging in conversation with some of them. They will stand there and talk for an hour. Time is money.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Another FYI. If you live in a rural enough area where emission inspections aren't required, it's a good possibility that there is no switch between Summer and Winter blend gasolines. Not a single terminal where I load switches. It's the same year round.

However, in metro areas it DOES change. I cannot legally take gasoline from my primary terminal to counties that require emissions testing. There was a driver with a different company who did this about 4 years ago. He did it because his dispatch gave him the order...he didn't know any better. It was caught during an audit. The carrier was fined $10K. The driver was fined $5K. He was suspended to load at the terminal for 1 year.


So, you're in Georgia, so you don't need a healthy RVP for cold starting. I'm assuming refineries further North give us as much as they can get away with? Read somewhere else that they have to keep the Butane out in the summer, which is a hassle, which adds to the price. Do they not tell you the RVP you're getting?

 

[GoldDot40]

Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Another FYI. If you live in a rural enough area where emission inspections aren't required, it's a good possibility that there is no switch between Summer and Winter blend gasolines. Not a single terminal where I load switches. It's the same year round.

However, in metro areas it DOES change. I cannot legally take gasoline from my primary terminal to counties that require emissions testing. There was a driver with a different company who did this about 4 years ago. He did it because his dispatch gave him the order...he didn't know any better. It was caught during an audit. The carrier was fined $10K. The driver was fined $5K. He was suspended to load at the terminal for 1 year.


So, you're in Georgia, so you don't need a healthy RVP for cold starting. I'm assuming refineries further North give us as much as they can get away with? Read somewhere else that they have to keep the Butane out in the summer, which is a hassle, which adds to the price. Do they not tell you the RVP you're getting?

The Atlanta-metro counties do change between Summer/Winter blends as they are located within a "reformulated gasoline/VOC-Control region. The gas I haul can go up to, but not exceed 10.0 psi as I do not deliver in the Atlanta-metro counties. The 1.0 psi RVP waiver applies to the product I deliver.

 

[Sayjac]

If this specific question/answer was covered before, I apologize in advance. Regarding "Speedway" gasoline which I see has been mentioned, just because it is owned by Marathon doesn't mean that it's gas is the same as Marathon TT rated gasoline? If that true, does it mean that is always the case or is it possible it could be, but the buyer has no way of knowing? TIA, appreciate your contribution here.

 

[nthach]

If a tanker is used to carry gasoline one day, diesel the next day and ethanol the other trip, how do they manage to clean up the tanker so it can safely carry each load without too much contamination, if that's even a practice?

Out here in a metro area of California, I see KAG trucks(they bought out a company called Beneto that trucked around most of NorCal's fuel for the majors and indies) and the DOT placards would be different. I know gas is 1203, diesel or other fuel oils is 1993, and EtOH is 1987.

Have you ever trucked in jet fuel or leaded av gas to an small airport? I know the major airports usually have a small tank terminal near a major pipeline.

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by walterjay
Are you privy to the mixing process. Which brand do you consider best.

Not really. There aren't any secrets to be told. It's mostly just a lot of "I heard it's done this way or that way", and then it's often misunderstood or explained incorrectly when information moves along from person to person.

I'll be honest, I really don't have an opinion on what's best. However, the guys who run the terminal say that Motiva (Shell) has the best additive package...if there has to be a "best". In reality, anything labeled Top Tier has to meet a minimum standard which makes the quality across the spectrum pretty close.

What do I run in my personal vehicle you may ask? Most of the time, I buy from Kroger. It's convenient and saves me money. Gotta love those fuel points.


Does the Kroger in your are have an option to add a fuel system cleaner at the pump? I have one near me that did (not sure if it still does as I have not been there in years) and I've always wondered how that was added.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it is really interesting and nice to get the facts.

 

[GoldDot40]

Originally Posted by Sayjac
If this specific question/answer was covered before, I apologize in advance. Regarding "Speedway" gasoline which I see has been mentioned, just because it is owned by Marathon doesn't mean that it's gas is the same as Marathon TT rated gasoline? If that true, does it mean that is always the case or is it possible it could be, but the buyer has no way of knowing? TIA, appreciate your contribution here.

If there's no marquee advertising a brand, then the station is selling unbranded product. It likely would be Marathon unbranded...which is product supplied by Marathon, but doesn't have their TT additive package. It would likely have a generic additive.

 

[GoldDot40]

Originally Posted by nthach
If a tanker is used to carry gasoline one day, diesel the next day and ethanol the other trip, how do they manage to clean up the tanker so it can safely carry each load without too much contamination, if that's even a practice?

Out here in a metro area of California, I see KAG trucks(they bought out a company called Beneto that trucked around most of NorCal's fuel for the majors and indies) and the DOT placards would be different. I know gas is 1203, diesel or other fuel oils is 1993, and EtOH is 1987.

Have you ever trucked in jet fuel or leaded av gas to an small airport? I know the major airports usually have a small tank terminal near a major pipeline.

There is no carrier that I know of that performs a washout of their tank between hauling different automobile fuels. We may haul a complete load of diesel, the very next load may be a full load of Unleaded...and vice versa. When we offload, we generally evacuate 99.99% of all the product.

Placard numbers for diesel can be 1993 or 1202 depending on where it's loaded. Whatever the manifest specifies is generally what the placards should reflect. Whenever we haul gasoline AND diesel in the same load, we always run the 1203 placard because gasoline is more volatile.

Now....if I haul "Off Road"...aka dyed diesel in a compartment, I cannot load clear diesel behind it for the next load. I have to haul a load of gasoline in between to help "wash it out". You DO NOT want any dye residue to be found in somebody's clear diesel.

Kerosene haulers are exclusive to kerosene. You can only imagine the catastrophe if gasoline got mixed with kerosene. It could get deadly.

Aviation fuel tankers are exclusively used for aviation fuels. Most large commerical air fields will take a sample of the delivery and test it before the accept the delivery.

 

[GoldDot40]

Originally Posted by postjeeprcr
Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by walterjay
Are you privy to the mixing process. Which brand do you consider best.

Not really. There aren't any secrets to be told. It's mostly just a lot of "I heard it's done this way or that way", and then it's often misunderstood or explained incorrectly when information moves along from person to person.

I'll be honest, I really don't have an opinion on what's best. However, the guys who run the terminal say that Motiva (Shell) has the best additive package...if there has to be a "best". In reality, anything labeled Top Tier has to meet a minimum standard which makes the quality across the spectrum pretty close.

What do I run in my personal vehicle you may ask? Most of the time, I buy from Kroger. It's convenient and saves me money. Gotta love those fuel points.


Does the Kroger in your are have an option to add a fuel system cleaner at the pump? I have one near me that did (not sure if it still does as I have not been there in years) and I've always wondered how that was added.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, it is really interesting and nice to get the facts.

My local Kroger does not offer an additional additive at the pump. However, I believe the Murphy/Walmart fuel pumps do. It's no different than adding something from a can...such as Lucas, Seafoam, etc. The product in the tanks already have detergent additives in it when delivered.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by GoldDot40
Originally Posted by Sayjac
If this specific question/answer was covered before, I apologize in advance. Regarding "Speedway" gasoline which I see has been mentioned, just because it is owned by Marathon doesn't mean that it's gas is the same as Marathon TT rated gasoline? If that true, does it mean that is always the case or is it possible it could be, but the buyer has no way of knowing? TIA, appreciate your contribution here.

If there's no marquee advertising a brand, then the station is selling unbranded product. It likely would be Marathon unbranded...which is product supplied by Marathon, but doesn't have their TT additive package. It would likely have a generic additive.

Isn't the vast majority of fuel sold as a commodity and then effectively traded through pipeline/fuel depot operators? For instance, there is no Shell refinery in Southern California, and it wouldn't really make much sense to ship fuel from the Shell refinery in Northern California. It makes more sense to just pipe in fuel from Southern California refineries and through pipeline operations Shell will input fuel from the Martinez refinery that will eventually be distributed locally. I thought that the pipeline operators are essentially transporters and fuel brokers serving like a bank would "wire money". It makes more sense to just transport it as short a distance as possible.