Fuel in oil- changing from Mobil 1, need suggestions

[Dekeman]

Hello all,

I'm using my first post to ask help on the listed problem. I'm tracking on a few potential causes for the fuel-in-oil problem, but one I'm considering is the switch I made last year to Mobil 1 5W-20 in my 03 Windstar. Switched from a couple years' use of MC 5W-20 syn blend. Being that syn is thinner, it's possible that the switch cause some leaking in the piston rings. Correct me if I'm nuts. Want to go back to the MC or maybe even back to dino. Pennzoil conventional is what my dad brought me up to use and it's a good dino if these boards are to be believed. Maybe ARX, though having the fuel in there likely really cleaned things up on our recent 700-mile trip. Oops. Things look sparkly clean through the oil filler hole.

So if anyone has any bright ideas, I'd appreciate it!

 

[chevrofreak]

Auto RX worked in my car and my mothers car to nearly completely eliminate the fuel smell in the oil. Auto RX works wonders for cleaning piston rings.

 

[d00df00d]

Synthetic isn't "thinner" per se. If anything, it's probably thicker than dino in the hot, high-shear areas between your cylinder walls and piston rings. I'd look elsewhere for the cause.

If you're looking for an oil to fight fuel dilution, check out RLI (Renewable Lubricants, Inc). It's relatively new stuff on the scene, but from what we can tell so far it's as good as it gets for fuel dilution. It's also made in America from renewable resources by nice people, which is a bonus.

 

[jldcol]

Welcome to Bitog, that oil in fuel is it a guess? UOA? A rich condition from various sources is likely, if not only factor. Stuck rings should be detectable from running condition and/or a compression/leak down test.IMHO.

 

[duaneb9729]

i had a similar situation, and found out i had a leaky fuel injector and a bad fuel pressure regulator.

Welcome to the forum!! There is a wealth of information here and a great bunch of fellows willing to help out !

 

[demarpaint]

I'm thinking changing the oil to a conventional oil is not the solution, in fact until you find the source it could be a bad move. I see you live in Northern NY, its pretty cold there in the winter. If the car has seen frequent short trips it could be from that, if not its a mechanical condition as stated above. I'd stick to the synthetic oil, perhaps PP to save a few $, and you'd be using a very good oil as well. Review driving habits, then check the FP regulator and the injectors for leaking down. Sometimes fuel can get so diluted that even after a long trip it's present, or the oil is damaged from it, especially from short trips in extreme cold.

 

[Eddie]

A teaspoon of fuel in 5 quarts of oil smells very strong due to the aromatic component in fuel. Do you base your fuel in oil on a used oil analysis or just guessing by smell?

 

[tig1]

Oil has nothing to do with your problem. My guess is your injectors may need cleaning or replaced. If your injectors aren't spraying correctly they may be pouring more fuel into your cylinders than is needed, and some of the fuel may work it's way into the crankcase.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Oil has nothing to do with your problem. My guess is your injectors may need cleaning or replaced. If your injectors aren't spraying correctly they may be pouring more fuel into your cylinders than is needed, and some of the fuel may work it's way into the crankcase.


Ding! Correct and agree 100%

Pennzoil conventional is one of the best oils out there. Hondas are known to have fuel issues so if you have a problem (did Fuel show up in a used oil analysis?) then address the fuel problem and run whatever oil you want.

They all work well.

Take care and

, Bill

 

[rg200amp]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Oil has nothing to do with your problem. My guess is your injectors may need cleaning or replaced. If your injectors aren't spraying correctly they may be pouring more fuel into your cylinders than is needed, and some of the fuel may work it's way into the crankcase.

Another +1

That 700 mile trip evaporated your fuel dilution. Go out get a bottle of quality additive. I like Redline SI-1. Add the whole bottle to the gas tank, fill up and drive it to empty. If that dose not work you may want to A) take out you injectors and clean them in a sonic bath parts cleaner, or B) Try new injectors.

 

[Dekeman]

Thanks to everyone for your kind welcome and quick replies. I've been lurking here for over a year, reading as much as I can and gleaning info from this excellent forum. I focused on the oil in this post only because this is THE oil forum. This vehicle does do a lot of short trips up here in the tundra, so it could be as simple as that. Yeah, it's cold. I went with Full Synthetic to help with cold flow in the extreme temps (down to -30 at the worst). The funny thing is that we just completed a 700 mile trip less than a week before I changed the oil, so you'd think that'd clear up most of the fuel dilution issues. I didn't explain it very well, but I know that synthetic has incremental cleaning properties, and may have cleared up deposits in the piston rings, causing a leak. At any rate, the oil is on it's way to Blackstone as we speak. With 112K miles on the vehicle, I'm interested in what they have to say. Even with the oil dilution and mileage, it runs very well. I'm crazy with maintenance now, though I was not always like this unfortunately. I would like to see 250K miles or more on this van, and I think I can do it.

I plan to have a fuel pressure test done to eliminate the fuel pressure regulator. I could pull a plug to check the condition, but I suspect I already know what they'll look like. Depending on the results of the pressure test, I will take a look at the injectors as well. The test will hopefully give me an idea of where to focus. It might be as simple as an injector O-ring or a fouled injector tip.

I've checked the PCV, PCV to throttle body hose, air filter hose connections, and intake air temp to rear valve cover hose. So far these check out fine. Also checked and cleaned the MAF. PCV is OEM (as recommended on the Windtar AF forum, IMO the best vehicle forum in existence).

I'll stay with M1 for the time being, and may actually switch to PP (in keeping with the way I was 'brung up' and the excellent reviews it gets here) on the next change. I'm glad I changed it when I did, because I was hearing a LOT of rattle on startup and warmup. Metal on metal sounds are not good.

 

[Dekeman]

Thanks, rg200amp. Thought that the long trip would have cleared up the fuel.

 

[Bill in Utah]

I can tell you *if* you had/have any deposits on the rings, no oil (Syn or conventional) will clean the packs IMO.

So what was your UOA saying as far as fuel? How about the rest. If the rest of the UOA is good but fuel, then I'd recommend that you go to shorter OCIs and get the fuel and junk out of there. Fuel in oil (no matter WHAT oil) is not a good thing the longer it is in there.

Sometimes changing oil is a good thing.

Take care, bill

 

[mechtech2]

Like they said, you may need to change the oil when it is contaminated, but it is not the cause of the extra fuel.

Could be a bad coolant sensor, thermostat, pressure regulator, of injector.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Like they said, you may need to change the oil when it is contaminated, but it is not the cause of the extra fuel.

Could be a bad coolant sensor, thermostat, pressure regulator, of injector.


There's also a good chance it's piston rings. Even if it's one of the other problems, that can cause piston rings to plug.

Does this by chance have the 3.0 V6? We've read a few cases here on BITOG of vehicles with the 3.0 V6 gaining significant fuel mileage after running Auto RX, and I believe it's due to the piston rings being cleaned.

 

[Dekeman]

My Windstar has the 3.8 V6. I don't know what the success rate is with ARX in this engine, but I'll be looking now. Hadn't heard the piston ring possibility, so thanks! I'm just going to wait on the UOA to come back later this week and see what that says, then combine that with the fuel pressure test results and see what my course will be. It may not be too hard to get into the fuel rail and see if the injectors are leaking with the key at the ON position, so I'll look into that too.

 

[Dekeman]

Got the UOA from Blackstone today, and here's what they said:

"Except for the mildly high iron, everything looks great in the first sample from your Ford 3.8L. Universal averages show typical wear metals from this type of engine after about 4,700 miles use on the oil. This level of iron doesn't necessarily point to a problem at steel parts and may even be normal for this particular engine. We'll watch it closely next time. All other wear looks great. The flashpoint and viscosity were both fine, so we do not suspect any excess fuel is getting into the oil. No anti-freeze was found either. All in all, a good report at 111,805 miles."

Needless to say, I am shocked. I'm really surprised that this engine is holding up as well as it is. The fuel I smelled must have been negligible. Awesome!! Still can't figure out why it smelled so strong, though. It must be the aromatic component that's added to it. It stays on your hands and clothes forever, so it has to be strong. UOA posted here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-5w-20-4610-mi-03-ford-windstar-3-8l-v6.102760/

Thanks, everyone, for your input and help!