friction modifier in a manual trans? Mazda mx-5 6mt

[ARCOgraphite]

My Yugo didnt have syncromsh 1st gear IIRC. I learned to drive around it. Selecting reverse almost always requires double clutching.

I will say certainly blockers on 2nd and 3rd are really a downer.

If it is just first gear affected on a downshift, I would again bleed the clutch. I have had nothing but problems with hydraulic throwout mechanisms. If the pedal feels "spongey" or if it engages near the floor it need servicing. There is sometimes an adjustable link bar in the mix down at the slave cylinder which can improve pedal height if it has been assured that all air has been removed with a good bleed. I would NEVR assume the serving dealer ticked all the boxes. Just dont go too far with the link bar, there is a spec for the plate to disk pull off sometimes as tight as 0.03 inch,
Also running light grade crankcase oil or main bearing thrust flange wear can affect clutch action due to crank endplay.
- Arco

 

[91camarosRS]

My Yugo didnt have syncromsh 1st gear IIRC. I learned to drive around it. Selecting reverse almost always requires double clutching.

I will say certainly blockers on 2nd and 3rd are really a downer.

If it is just first gear affected on a downshift, I would again bleed the clutch. I have had nothing but problems with hydraulic throwout mechanisms. If the pedal feels "spongey" or if it engages near the floor it need servicing. There is sometimes an adjustable link bar in the mix down at the slave cylinder which can improve pedal height if it has been assured that all air has been removed with a good bleed. I would NEVR assume the serving dealer ticked all the boxes. Just dont go too far with the link bar, there is a spec for the plate to disk pull off sometimes as tight as 0.03 inch,
Also running light grade crankcase oil or main bearing thrust flange wear can affect clutch action due to crank endplay.
- Arco

When I drove the car for a weekend, it seemed a shift just fine. And the issue that she is having I would normally just drive around it, but it is an issue nonetheless. It’s also intermittent which makes me not think it’s a clutch or system issue.

 

[meep]

If she can’t grab first at the light, have her first grab another gear such as second or 4th, keep the clutch in, then grab first. The synchros from the other gear should stop the intermediate shaft from spinning, or bump the shaft around so 1st can line up. That may be her secret sauce. I had a rather notchy Subaru that did this regularly.

 

[chris719]

I have a 2010 Mazda 3 6MT and I ran factory fill up to 30k and then switched to Redline MTL and changed it twice since. Now at 150k and it shifts the same or better than it did the day I bought it new.

This almost sounds more like a clutch or shift linkage issue though. You would expect the 2nd gear synchro to take the beating. I have heard of this happening in a recent BMW ZF 6MT and it was a shift fork I think.

 

[91camarosRS]

If she can’t grab first at the light, have her first grab another gear such as second or 4th, keep the clutch in, then grab first. The synchros from the other gear should stop the intermediate shaft from spinning, or bump the shaft around so 1st can line up. That may be her secret sauce. I had a rather notchy Subaru that did this regularly.

i have mentioned this, but unsure if she does.

I have a 2010 Mazda 3 6MT and I ran factory fill up to 30k and then switched to Redline MTL and changed it twice since. Now at 150k and it shifts the same or better than it did the day I bought it new.

This almost sounds more like a clutch or shift linkage issue though. You would expect the 2nd gear synchro to take the beating. I have heard of this happening in a recent BMW ZF 6MT and it was a shift fork I think.

maybe? i know for a LONG time, i found out that she was starting out in second gear most of the time and was slipping the clutch... a lot. due to the need for a new one.


either way, we are putting the ford fluid in on Monday or Tuesday of next week along with a list of other repairs.

 

[91camarosRS]

My Yugo didnt have syncromsh 1st gear IIRC. I learned to drive around it. Selecting reverse almost always requires double clutching.

I will say certainly blockers on 2nd and 3rd are really a downer.

If it is just first gear affected on a downshift, I would again bleed the clutch. I have had nothing but problems with hydraulic throwout mechanisms. If the pedal feels "spongey" or if it engages near the floor it need servicing. There is sometimes an adjustable link bar in the mix down at the slave cylinder which can improve pedal height if it has been assured that all air has been removed with a good bleed. I would NEVR assume the serving dealer ticked all the boxes. Just dont go too far with the link bar, there is a spec for the plate to disk pull off sometimes as tight as 0.03 inch,
Also running light grade crankcase oil or main bearing thrust flange wear can affect clutch action due to crank endplay.
- Arco

would it make sense that the clutch still needs bled, if the problem is intermittent?

 

[tcp71]

A couple of points. Not sure if the 6MT (skyactive version) in our 2013 CX-5 is the same transmission, but it has certain characteristics:

1. First gear is NOT available until you get to a dead stop. any motion from the wheels and you can't get it into gear.
2. At a dead stop there are occasions when 1st gear needs a quick release of the clutch to be able to get it to go. in. Some syncro alignment issue I suspect.
3. Reverse is exactly the same as first. Any movement and it is NOT available. Same issue as 2 above for reverse.

I suspect it is somewhat inherent in the skyactive 6MT for these things. Tried a number of fluids (Redline MTL, Ford XT-M5-QS, valvoline, etc) on the CX-5 before settling on amsoil sychromesh MTF for the best performance of this transmission.

Be aware the original transmission in the cx-5 and a brand new one installed a couple of years ago had the same characteristics. It was replaced due to an ever increasing bearing noise from damage incurred by the first owner.

 

[TiGeo]

I use XT-11-QDC DCT fluid (current spec that replaced the standard Ford 75W90 MTF) in the MX75 5 spd in our Focus and it's the smoothest manual I've felt after using that.

 

[dnewton3]

I had a 2019 MX-5 with manual, and now have a 2023 MX-5 with manual.
The ND series has a very light trans; it was a complete redesign over the NC version.
The ND series had some issues in the 2016/17 model years, but that was generally related to breakage of 2nd gear in hard use.

For what it's worth, the Mazda spec is essentially a GL-4 in 75w-90.

I've used the OE fluid, then the Ford MT fluid, and now I'm on Redline MT-LV (lower vis than spec). All this in a search for easier, smoother shifting. Honestly, there isn't THAT much difference in shifting quality between all three fluids I've tried. I suspect the OPs search isn't going to reveal any substantial magical "ah-ha!" fluid that will cure the difficulty in getting into first and reverse. I will say, that until the fluid is fully warmed, the trans shifting is just a bit notchy and annoying regardless of what fluid you use. Once the fluid is warmed up, it's a fairly decent shifting unit.

I do echo others comments about making sure the hydraulic circuit is properly bled after the clutch change, but if all the other gears are shifting decently, it's unlikely this is the root cause.

I've found that sometimes I have to put the trans into 2nd (while sitting still) before going into 1st. I have no idea why this helps, but shifting into 2nd, then 1st, while stopped, nearly always makes that shift into 1st gear much, much easier.

 

[91camarosRS]

I don’t expect a full fix, just a help.


It’s not an issue of notchyness. It’s that it just makes plain we may go into 1st. I drove the car for a weekend and I had this happen a couple times and I had to kind of slip the clutch to get it to go in.

And again, I don’t think that any magic fluid is going to fix the issue, but it might help some of the symptoms and that’s my goal. The only other option is to do a full rebuild later. Which she might still do depending on if this is that big of an issue to her

 

[dnewton3]

I understand.
Try what I suggested; moving into 2nd before 1st when stopped. Can't explain why it helps; it just does, at least in my MX-5.

 

[eljefino]

On at least the earlier Miatas (NA, NB) the generally accepted perfect fluid is the non-OE motorcraft fluid that's $37/quart that you seem to have ordered. I doubt a Mazda dealer would use this.

 

[ceecbtg]

Original spec for 2016 MT-6 is 75w90 GL4.
If you buyed Ford/Motorcraft 75w90 GL4 go with it, famous in Mazda for years MT-5 and 6. It's TOP classic GL4 true syn + esters, works really good when cold and when warm it's like 75w85'ish. If it doesn't help go with 75w GL4 like Ford WSS-M2C200-D2 spec or Amsoil MTF or Synchro series or forget it, I'd avoid modifier and repairs, it's not broken, it's manufacturing vice.

 

[91camarosRS]

Yeah, I did mention shifting differently, but sometimes people listen to you sometimes they don’t.

I can’t say that when I went to go visit her I specifically remember a time that I was driving around Boulder and that trick did not work and I had to kind of slip the clutch and almost grind into first. Not terribly bad but a little bit. She loves this car and It’s paid off, so if it gets really bad, she will probably just rebuild the transmission. But I also suggested that she gets with a Miata club locally and see what they suggest.

One of the reasons why I didn’t want her working on it at the Mazda dealership is because I didn’t think they would be willing to put anything other than factory fluid and then all of the blame game starts happening

As far as the clutch goes, she’s coming here on Monday and Tuesday and I plan on changing out the fluid like I said, and then using the remainder fluid for the turrent. I have some red and tacky Lucas grease that I was gonna use on the shifter ball, but I don’t know if that’s OK.

I feel like that’s probably the best that we can do on our end.


And then the original question remains, if this doesn’t work if I added the friction modifier to it would that even do anything? why would they be calling their, “engineers” or whatever and that was the fix?

I’m trying to come up with different steps of troubleshooting or fixes

 

[skyactiv]

I put Triax Synergy Gear MT 75W80 in my wife's Audi when I replaced the clutch and flywheel. It is a GL4 fluid containing PAO and ester. I consider that MT fluid a diamond in the rough.

 

[MolaKule]

And then the original question remains, if this doesn’t work if I added the friction modifier to it would that even do anything? why would they be calling their, “engineers” or whatever and that was the fix?

And I stand behind my original response in a previous post.

"How do we know they actually contacted "engineers" for their opinion?

I say it's bunk. I think they wanted to add something to charge more and do an "upsell." This is when dealers give customers an excuse to add something the customer has not requested to order to "pad" their profits.

BTW, dealer techs and engineers are NOT lubricant formulators."

Is any aftermarket friction modifier needed? NO!

 

[skyactiv]

 

[TiGeo]

 

[edyvw]

I put Triax Synergy Gear MT 75W80 in my wife's Audi when I replaced the clutch and flywheel. It is a GL4 fluid containing PAO and ester. I consider that MT fluid a diamond in the rough.

I just can’t.

 

[ammolab]

Does it shift easily into first and reverse with the engine off?

If yes?…check yourself to see if the clutch isn’t dragging (failure to fully release)